Reality of horses in the show

[Ampris]

I'll preface this by saying that I have worked with horses all my life, so I am guessing that most viewers don't notice this - but I am really bothered by the horses they are using to film. The types/breeds are completely inappropriate to their roles, with the exception of some of the Friesians (the Mountain's beheaded stallion is one - they are the all black, long mane and tail, furry legged horses) being ridden by knights or matched pairs pulling carriages. These are both examples of their historical use and what they were bred for.

I read one forum post that said they were having trouble finding enough horses to film so maybe that is the explanation? But when I googled the apperance of Friesians in the show, a blogger wrote that they invited anyone in the filming area with horses to come try out for appearances as extras. The UK may not have as many horses as the US but still, I would think taking one's horse to be on a TV show would be pretty exciting and draw quite a crowd.

The Westerosi horses don't bother me as much, but some of the Dothraki and NW horses really stand out to my eye. Dothraki horses (and the sandsteeds, too - but we haven't seen them yet) should be desert type, hot-blooded: Arabs, Akhal Tekes, etc. Sticking a Friesian or Belgian in the middle of the Dothraki Sea is a glaring error! They just aren't built for endurance and would quickly die trying to maintain the pace and distance of a khalasar. (http://www.pajiba.co...roken-thing.php 14 says they couldn't find a silver horse. Akhal Tekes are most famous for their metallic coats. You're telling me they couldn't find a shiny grey Akhal Teke to serve? Instead they pick a grey gone almost completely white. The greying process takes years and her silver was supposed to be a young filly not an aged mare.)

As for the NW, for as many times as the novels mention Jon Snow's garron and the similar steeds of various wildlings/northern characters, they could at least get that one right. Icelandics or any type that resembles the Mongolian steppe ponies aren't that hard to come by. The fact that these horses are suited to the climate of the north and are so much hardier than other breeds is the reason they survive. That's kind of an important detail for horses in the North.

Like I said, probably most viewers won't notice it. But any other equestrians out there bothered by these errors? I find myself noticing the mounts instead of paying attention to the storyline.

[Bluthund]

I am another equestrian who bothers her friends with horsey-details concerning TV/cinema. I am glad I am not the only one.

First of all... why do horses have to whinny everytime they enter a scene? Really, everytime you see a horse in a movie (or in this case TV series).. you hear them whinny. Horses aren't usually that noisy. I mean everyone can see that this is a horse and not a cow. You don't have to hear the appropriate animal sound everytime.

And I can't take my eyes off bad hooves. (There are some pretty bad ones in The Lord of the Rings) But I have to admit, that every equestrian (including me) is a notorious wisenheimer. :rolleyes: So enough about that.

About the choice of breeds in GoT: When I read the books I was sometimes a bit confused by the descriptions of horses and other horse-stuff. GRRM doesn't seem to be too much of a horseman.. well I don't expect him to be, of course.

Well, anyhow, I wasn't expecting too fine and hot-blooded horses (like Arabs) for the Dothraki (but I do expect them for Dorne.. you are definitely right with that!) ... I always imagned a mixture of Mongolian ponies and German Sportshorses. Don't ask me why. And please don't ask me to describe how this would look like. Probably really ugly when I think about it now.

But I was kinda disappointed by Dany's filly aswell. This one at least could have been a bit more exotic. An Akhal Tekes would actually have been a really good choice - only if it wasn't a too skinny one. But I don't know if there are many of them in the UK.

And to the Wall: In the series it seems like horses shrink when they go further north :laugh: The warmbloods they left with suddenly looked an aweful lot like Islandics in the second season. Or did they change horses at Craster's Keep?

[Which Tyler]

Didn't they change shooting location? wouldn't that explain things?

I don't really see them shipping miscellaneous horse #4 from Northern Ireland to Iceland for filming; and I rather suspect that, if they're amateur volunteers, they just make do with what shows up on the day. Where that's the case, then there's no real "casting" for the horses, just taking what's provided (or what's suitable from what's provided)

[Iotun]

I believe in the DVD commentaries, they mentioned that working with horses is one of the most difficult and expensive aspects of the shooting, so I imagine they must deal with what they can get. I believe they have the one horsemen group that they work with, so they probably just manage with whatever that group can get.

Kind of unrelated, but what I also found interesting in the commentaries was that apparently one of the most difficult things they had to deal with was finding a white raven and shipping it on location, for the one one scene where Pycelle presents the raven to the council to state that Summer has ended.

[The Dragon has three heads]

Horse is a horse.

As long as it looks "the part" average viewer does not care.

*i don't consider myself the average viewer, but, I can't tell a stallion from a gelding from a mare.

Let alone individual breeds or types.

[velki]

Working with horses on a set is extremely expensive and dangerous both for the crew and for the horses themselves. No real reason to nitpick there if it'd mean putting the horses in danger (for example, having to ship them long distances all over the place to the various shoot locations) to accomplish something most people won't notice.

[kevin1989]

I don't see the point here, are you complaining about the fact that they didn't use the right horse? Because the world of song of ice and fire isn't our world. They don't have too look at different type of horses.

Or are you complaining about horse safety because they are in areas they aren't suppose to be?

[Ampris]

Didn't they change shooting location? wouldn't that explain things?

I don't really see them shipping miscellaneous horse #4 from Northern Ireland to Iceland for filming; and I rather suspect that, if they're amateur volunteers, they just make do with what shows up on the day. Where that's the case, then there's no real "casting" for the horses, just taking what's provided (or what's suitable from what's provided)

Possibly that could explain things. I did notice that Tyrion's mount did not change for the entirety of Season 1 - his grey tail and black body had me watching him the entire time. I haven't paid much attention to where they are shooting. Also - Friesians rarely sell for under 10K in the US. A horse that valuable (let alone the multiple Friesians appearing in the show) seems unlikely to just show up at a casting event. SOME casting had to have been done for the more expensive/higher quality horses.

First of all... why do horses have to whinny everytime they enter a scene? Really, everytime you see a horse in a movie (or in this case TV series).. you hear them whinny. Horses aren't usually that noisy. I mean everyone can see that this is a horse and not a cow. You don't have to hear the appropriate animal sound everytime.

And I can't take my eyes off bad hooves. (There are some pretty bad ones in The Lord of the Rings) But I have to admit, that every equestrian (including me) is a notorious wisenheimer. :rolleyes: So enough about that.

About the choice of breeds in GoT: When I read the books I was sometimes a bit confused by the descriptions of horses and other horse-stuff. GRRM doesn't seem to be too much of a horseman.. well I don't expect him to be, of course.

Well, anyhow, I wasn't expecting too fine and hot-blooded horses (like Arabs) for the Dothraki (but I do expect them for Dorne.. you are definitely right with that!) ... I always imagned a mixture of Mongolian ponies and German Sportshorses. Don't ask me why. And please don't ask me to describe how this would look like. Probably really ugly when I think about it now.

But I was kinda disappointed by Dany's filly aswell. This one at least could have been a bit more exotic. An Akhal Tekes would actually have been a really good choice - only if it wasn't a too skinny one. But I don't know if there are many of them in the UK.

And to the Wall: In the series it seems like horses shrink when they go further north :laugh: The warmbloods they left with suddenly looked an aweful lot like Islandics in the second season. Or did they change horses at Craster's Keep?

Replying to the bolded parts:

It is always the same whinny, or the same trumpeting stallion sound, every time too! But yes, especially military horses. They HAD to be quiet to avoid giving away positions. A loud horse is a risk.

I just put the confusion down to his attempt to use archaic terms and breeds/type but if actual equestrians are confused I feel bad for the average reader lol.

I have no idea how many Tekes are in the UK, but there are definitely more in Europe - especially Russia and Germany - than the US. Seems to me it's a horse they could have put some effort into finding. But considering they then killed her off in the show I guess it doesn't matter as much.

I didn't notice the "shrinking" but the general ugliness of the horses in the opening scene at the Wall had me trying to tune out the horses at the Wall in the rest of the scenes haha.

[Ampris]

I don't see the point here, are you complaining about the fact that they didn't use the right horse? Because the world of song of ice and fire isn't our world. They don't have too look at different type of horses.

Or are you complaining about horse safety because they are in areas they aren't suppose to be?

Umm I think I was quite clear that the types/breeds are off. It may not be "our" world but GRRM does a lot of horse describing. It's not unreasonabe to expect that all that description be SOMEWHAT reflected in the show.

[kevin1989]

Umm I think I was quite clear that the types/breeds are off. It may not be "our" world but GRRM does a lot of horse describing. It's not unreasonabe to expect that all that description be SOMEWHAT reflected in the show.

I was just checking. Personally I don't see the problem here. The show aren't the books and Westeros isn't our world. And about Danny's horse, I think she or he is very beautiful. But don't forget as stated above, that the safety of the horses is more important than some accuracy on breeds imo. And it cost very much to bring a horse from one place to another, those cost can be used for more important things in the show.

[Ampris]

I was just checking. Personally I don't see the problem here. The show aren't the books and Westeros isn't our world. And about Danny's horse, I think she or he is very beautiful. But don't forget as stated above, that the safety of the horses is more important than some accuracy on breeds imo. And it cost very much to bring a horse from one place to another, those cost can be used for more important things in the show.

I personally don't think safety has anything to do with it. It is MUCH safer to use horses that have been specially trained and desensitized than to just pull random people and horses from the local populace. More expensive but safer. Shipping for a horse used to traveling a lot really isn't a big deal.

[kevin1989]

I personally don't think safety has anything to do with it. It is MUCH safer to use horses that have been specially trained and desensitized than to just pull random people and horses from the local populace. More expensive but safer. Shipping for a horse used to traveling a lot really isn't a big deal.

So it's not about the breeds but about the safety? As I said before if it's about the breeds, most people don't care. But safety is important in my opinion.

But I think that we can assume that safety isn't an issue with the GOT crew, they are very carefully with that. I only hope that the actors get some training before they shoot a scene with a horse, how to deal with horses.

[SecretaryofEvil]

The producers frequently mention how expensive and time consuming it is to shoot scenes involving horses. Shipping specific horses from other countries to Ireland or Malta would be even more expensive and time consuming. Sometimes the television watching experience is happier if you accept the limitations of the medium.

I can sympathize with your annoyance though. I worked in the legal field, and now I have a hard time enjoying any courtroom dramas on film or TV because of how unrealistic they all are.

Also note, in Europe during the Middle Ages horses were very rarely described by their breed. Instead horses tended to be classified by their individual characteristics and what type of work the horse was best suited for. Words like plafrey, courser, rouncey, destrier etc, don't refer to breeds of horses, rather they refer to horses that fit certain characteristics. There's a pretty good wikipedia article about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_Middle_Ages#Types_of_horse

[Nymeria_Snow]

I think it's been more down to how suitable the horses are in terms of their temperament and training, as opposed to their breeds. This is in my opinion, a far bigger factor.

also, for those wondering about the actors' horse training, the boss at the stables where I worked last year was one of the "equine experts" on the GOT set in season 1 and taught some of the actors. From the stories she told me, it sounds like the actors get a fair amount of training with horses, well in advance.

[Ampris]

Also note, in Europe during the Middle Ages horses were very rarely described by their breed. Instead horses tended to be classified by their individual characteristics and what type of work the horse was best suited for. Words like plafrey, courser, rouncey, destrier etc, don't refer to breeds of horses, rather they refer to horses that fit certain characteristics. There's a pretty good wikipedia article about it:

http://en.wikipedia....#Types_of_horse

Most of the horses used aren't even the right TYPE though. I made suggestions for what breeds might fit the types mentioned but I did not mean at all they are ironclad. That is a good article for the confused though.

So it's not about the breeds but about the safety? As I said before if it's about the breeds, most people don't care. But safety is important in my opinion.

But I think that we can assume that safety isn't an issue with the GOT crew, they are very carefully with that. I only hope that the actors get some training before they shoot a scene with a horse, how to deal with horses.

No, my point was that if safety was the justification for not representing horses accurately, then a call for random extras was certainly not the way to go about it.

also, for those wondering about the actors' horse training, the boss at the stables where I worked last year was one of the "equine experts" on the GOT set in season 1 and taught some of the actors. From the stories she told me, it sounds like the actors get a fair amount of training with horses, well in advance.

That's pretty cool about your boss! I heard around the time they were making Hidalgo, that because of the prevalence of horseback scenes in film and TV most actors have had some riding lessons.

[Bronn Stone]

The breeds of horses that exist in Westeros do not exist on Earth.

The equine actors playing the roles of Dothraki horses aren't actually Dothraki horses. Just like the actors playing Dothraki aren't actually Dothraki. They're pretending.

ETA: Yes, they could spend more on the equine cast and get closer approximations. But then they'd have to spend less on costumes or effects or human actors. I think they made the right choice.

[Bluthund]

Possibly that could explain things. I did notice that Tyrion's mount did not change for the entirety of Season 1 - his grey tail and black body had me watching him the entire time. I haven't paid much attention to where they are shooting. Also - Friesians rarely sell for under 10K in the US. A horse that valuable (let alone the multiple Friesians appearing in the show) seems unlikely to just show up at a casting event. SOME casting had to have been done for the more expensive/higher quality horses.

Replying to the bolded parts:

It is always the same whinny, or the same trumpeting stallion sound, every time too! But yes, especially military horses. They HAD to be quiet to avoid giving away positions. A loud horse is a risk.

Thank you for sharing my Feelings about that! :-) This "phenomenon" is really annoying and its everywhere!

The breeds of horses that exist in Westeros do not exist on Earth.

ETA: Yes, they could spend more on the equine cast and get closer approximations. But then they'd have to spend less on costumes or effects or human actors. I think they made the right choice.

You are absolutely right. In the end it is a fantasy world and the overall atmosphere does not suffer from the choice of horses. Thinking about horses and jousting: Did you know, that jousting horses did not see where they were running? they were actually "blinded" by horse-masks to stop them from shying. You see, there is obviosly soooo much more about the show or armour etc. that would not be "historically" accurate. Being a nitpicker would just spoil the viewing-pleasure. However, I do enjoy some casual horsey-talk from time to time. :laugh:

[Ampris]

Thank you for sharing my Feelings about that! :-) This "phenomenon" is really annoying and its everywhere!

You are absolutely right. In the end it is a fantasy world and the overall atmosphere does not suffer from the choice of horses. Thinking about horses and jousting: Did you know, that jousting horses did not see where they were running? they were actually "blinded" by horse-masks to stop them from shying. You see, there is obviosly soooo much more about the show or armour etc. that would not be "historically" accurate. Being a nitpicker would just spoil the viewing-pleasure. However, I do enjoy some casual horsey-talk from time to time. :laugh:

That was all I was after :P

[Currawong]

I'm also a horse person and naturally notice horses used in TV and movies, as well as the various tack used. However I think it is very unfair to criticise the show for the type of horses used.

As others have pointed out, working with horses is extremely expensive and it's not just a matter of 'rounding up the locals' and grabbing a few likely types of steed. Think of what those horses actually have to cope with on-set - all sorts of strange-and-spooky looking cameras and other equipment, lots of noise, lights, crowds of people, being asked to do 'action' sequences that are not at all what they are used to, and so on. Many horses simply don't have the temperament to cope with all that, or would require extensive training before they could do so. The last thing any producers want is to endanger cast and crew with untrained or unsuitable horses that are likely to take fright at something unforeseen and shy/buck/bolt/whatever. As any horse person would know, even the best and most sensible horse can react unexpectedly at something, and the quietest horse can inexplicably discover a 'dragon' lurking behind a tree that they have walked past for the last two years :D

Yes, all the cast have been given riding lessons (some could already ride), but even so, that doesn't mean you can just expect them to cope with any old horse provided. In one of Charles Dance's interviews, he actually comments on the high quality of the horses used in the production, and how well-trained and obedient they are- he's obviously worked on more than a few shows where he's had to deal with animals that are less than satisfactory.

Dothraki horses (and the sandsteeds, too - but we haven't seen them yet) should be desert type, hot-blooded: Arabs, Akhal Tekes, etc.

If they are living on the endless grasslands, it would surely be just as valid for the Dothraki to ride small, chunky Mongolian pony types!

If the show had an unlimited budget, they could undoubtedly spend money on acquiring many different types of horses, but I am quite happy to keep cast ad crew safe, and go along with what they are doing so far.

[boojam]

I believe in the DVD commentaries, they mentioned that working with horses is one of the most difficult and expensive aspects of the shooting, so I imagine they must deal with what they can get. I believe they have the one horsemen group that they work with, so they probably just manage with whatever that group can get.

It's true this is D and D's first outing with horse, I don't know about the directors. I suppose expenses have risen. But HBO would not be using thoroughbreds for war horses. I would suppose all of Ireland would have a lot non-thoroughbreds. I am not sure the UK has 'stunt-horse' companies such as the US does. Still D and D seem horse shy and that sticks out for such a setting and contrasts to GRRM's books.

(After all DEADWOOD did well with horse and I can't believe HBO is shy because of LUCK, since these would be a whole different kind of horse.)