Rereading Tyrion VI (ADWD)

[Uncat]

I'm such a nerd. But then it might be the influence of a friend's eight years old son. Anyway, the first parallel that crossed my mind when reading about the yellow whale was the Return of the Jedi and Jabba the Hutt. Sure, this time, young master Luke is dancing for Jabba, too. Han Solo is also there, frozen by the circumstances, though, and not by some carbo-stuff I forgot. And little Leia wears a golden collar instead of a golden bikini.

:wacko:

[Blisscraft]

I'm such a nerd. But then it might be the influence of a friend's eight years old son. Anyway, the first parallel that crossed my mind when reading about the yellow whale was the Return of the Jedi and Jabba the Hutt. Sure, this time, young master Luke is dancing for Jabba, too. Han Solo is also there, frozen by the circumstances, though, and not by some carbo-stuff I forgot. And little Leia wears a golden collar instead of a golden bikini.

:wacko:

Too funny! :rofl:

[Ragnorak]

Very nice work,Butterbumps. I never noticed the Purple Wedding parallels but I think they're there and intentional. We know from Jon Connington's first chapter with the Golden Company that they were offered slaves if they joined the campaign against Dany and that those slaves would come from Meereen in vast numbers. Volantis seems to have no intention of abiding by any peace accord. Tyrion seeing Meereen as a beacon of potential freedom is what Dany's campaign has done for the slaves in Volantis. They need to crush her, humiliate her in the eyes of the slaves and enslave all those she's freed to send a message just like Tyrion keeps seeing and feeling warnings of what happens when one strives for freedom.

The Purple Wedding was, on the surface, a great marriage to bring peace and unite the land. One spouse was an intolerable match that needed to be eliminated or sacrificed for that peace to work. There was also the third party LF who was using that marriage to advance his own plans, steal assets, and poison the peace on his own timetable. The same elements are here though somewhat inverted and exact one to one parallels aren't clear. The marriage is between Dany and the Ghiscari with the Valyrian remnants as the third party. The Green Grace is a bit of an Olenna and a Littlefinger combined. She is reluctant to get involved like the Queen of Thorns but also the manipulative behind the scenes figure that LF played if she is in fact the Harpy. The Supreme Yunkish Commander plays the LF role of recruiting the jousting dwarves for Dany's poisoning.

In general there is the high level parallel of the Ghiscari planning to poison Dany similar to Joffrey and Volantis as a third party with its own agenda to destroy both sides. I suspect Sansa is the Purple Wedding parallel to the dragons which makes me wonder if Volantis plans on stealing them (they do have a high probability of having access to a dragon horn.) This may tie in to the Ghiscari slaves having Valyrian glyphs on their collars although that may just be symbolic of the fact that Old Valyria brought slavery to the Ghis. The Sansa/Dragon parallel has lots of potential and probably deserves its own attention in PtP. The trebuchet names strike me as similar to the ship names in Tyrion and Davos POVs at the Blackwater. THere was a ship called the Harridan too that almost certainly pointed to the QoT. Wicked Sister is probably Cersei. The Ghost of Astapor is similar to the ploy tried with Renly. Mazdahn was apparently one of Hizdahr's ancestors and we have a Mazdahn's Fist leaving the Harpy's Daughter and Dragonbreaker that may have more subtle meanings than the obvious ones.

I agree with the yellow representing gold and it is interesting that it is so heavily linked to disease and decay. The martial strength of the Ghiscari is somewhat laughable-- men on stilts, men chained together so they can't run, etc. Tywin relied more on martial strength than gold but always bragged about gold. These people rely far more on gold but brag about their martial strength. Slave soldiers are the ultimate form of buying loyalty with gold and I think we're being presented with an extreme of the Lannister system here. I like Lummel's primary color notion of gold between fire and ice but-- Lummel, did you just try and buy more Marxism with gold?

[Lykos]

I feel I have to make good for not having thanked redviper9, Dr. Pepper, Lummel, Ragnorak and Butterbumps! for their last chapter summaries and analysises. Thank you, :read: I´ll try to come back to all of them.

The chained warriors on stilts are called herons. Herons appear all the time Margaery hunts one down with her bird, heron was served at the purple wedding and there were heron observed by Tyrion on the pole boat.

What do herons represent for Martin?

Herons are also known as shitepokes. They are beautiful flyers and where therefore a popular prey for falconers, but their meat tastes oily and fishy (tranig :dunno: ) so it has to lie in milk for some hours and afterwards tastes like wild duck. The fat was said to be a remedy for gout.

ETA: Margaery´s bird is a peregrine, a bird for a prince. In the Arianne gift chapter,

The ship Arianne takes to Aegon is called peregrine.

[Blisscraft]

Back in the day, like many school children of my generation which includes GRRM, the color yellow was one of three "primary" colors. The two others were red and blue. You could mix combinations of these three to create secondary colors and so on. . .Yellow in this chapter, as in the chapter with Illyrio, is presented in its more negative aspect, as Ragnorak, notes above: disease and decay and aging, too. Yellow is a color of autumn leaves. It signals a change in the seasons as well as one on the horizen like sunrise or sunset (like a change the slave economy, maybe?).

Once again, not only do we have the color yellow associated with Tyrion, but also the number three (which by extention connects him to Dany as we've talked about previously). The number three crops up again in this chapter. Tyrion and Penny are offered for sale as a pair. The crone in violet chirps her bid, "And one!" throughout the pair's auction. Jorah, is offered solo, one sale after Tyrion and Penny are sold to the Yellow Whale. He is "added" to the pair's act which brings the total to three and by reference closer to Dany.

Another thing about numbers, Jorah is "Lot 99." Martin seems to enjoy this number as it associated with coming change.

[Lykos]

Very nice finds, Blisscraft, onthe numbers and the colour yellow. Ragnorak as well, I´ve been trying to fit green into this.

When you talk about light as colour, the three primaries are red, green and blue. Yellow is a primary of the reflective paint. The confusion about the complementary colours is interesting, since the invisible spectrum of the colourwheel might account for that. I feel the urge to call it the "stranger" :blushing: , but I don´t think that Martin delved that deep into sience.

[Lummel]

...I agree with the yellow representing gold and it is interesting that it is so heavily linked to disease and decay. The martial strength of the Ghiscari is somewhat laughable-- men on stilts, men chained together so they can't run, etc. Tywin relied more on martial strength than gold but always bragged about gold. These people rely far more on gold but brag about their martial strength. Slave soldiers are the ultimate form of buying loyalty with gold and I think we're being presented with an extreme of the Lannister system here. I like Lummel's primary color notion of gold between fire and ice but-- Lummel, did you just try and buy more Marxism with gold?

**tries to look innocent**

The odd slave soldiers are historical references. The two companies of slave soldiers formed by the Confederacy in the last weeks of the US civil war were also kept in chains, silts were used by shepherds in a region of France and their was a proposal to use silts in the French army - once you're into the swing of it you can move faster.

The diversity of soldiers those, plus the slingers, plus the new ghis legions and the mercenaries companies give the impression of rag bag of soldiers scraped together by the slave powers to end freedom in Meereen.

... the first parallel that crossed my mind when reading about the yellow whale was the Return of the Jedi and Jabba the Hutt. Sure, this time, young master Luke is dancing for Jabba, too...

Jabba was kind of yellowish...

[Fire Eater]

Tyrion is riding Pretty the Pig now.

Beneath the empty eyes of the skulls on the walls, Jaime hauled the last dragonking bodily off the steps, squealing like a pig and smelling like a privy.

I am bleeding like a butchered pig, he [Jon] thought

Tyrion riding a pig symbolizes that he's now riding his hopes on a Targaryen.

[Isildur's Mane]

I'm falling behind and I've only made one post on this thread!

I've distracted myself by re reading SoS for season three. Anyway - I'm (sort of) up to date now and hopefully I won't fall behind again. (Though maybe I should just wait untiil a new re read starts (is there going to be a new on - I assume there is?))

Anyway - you guys have pretty much already said everything for this chapter.

I just wanted to add - not sure if it has already been brought up - but this quote

“Tyrion squeezed her hand. “It’s solid gold,” he lied. “In Westeros, highborn ladies dream of such a necklace.” Better a collar than a brand. A collar can be removed.

Reminds me of what Sansa starts going through in the Veil and the "kindly meant lies" (paraphrase).

I'm not sure what to make of it, but as soon as I read Tyrion's (quote) I thought of Sansa.

I like the parallels with the Purple Wedding as in this chapter - good catch :)

[Lummel]

...(Though maybe I should just wait untiil a new re read starts (is there going to be a new on - I assume there is?)...

Yes we have reached agreement after a prolonged struggle more bitter and bloody thirsty than the struggle for the Iron Throne itself about who we will reread next ;)

Well I apologise for the delay in getting this chapter post out to you. I promise, I swear before the old gods and the new that this will be my very last late chapter post in this reread :laugh: and here without further delay is:

Tyrion XI ADWD

Overview

Tyrion uses the excuse of fetching water for the Yellow Whale (dying of the Pale Mare, the consequences of his death in the change of Yunkish policy are seen in the Barristan chapters) to escape and make his way, with Penny and Mormont in tow, to the encampment of the Second Sons. Although they have no place for mummers, the chapter closes with Tyrion determined to talk his way in.

Observations

“Lomas Longstrider saw the walls of Quarth. His books suffice for me. I have gone as far east as I intend to go.” p756 Tyrion the reader, compare with Jojen's words that the reader lives a thousand lives.

“The eyes were where a dragon was most vulnerable. The eyes, and the brain behind them. Not the underbelly, as certain old tales would have it.” p759 certain old tales like “The Hobbit”

“In this company silence was the better part of wisdom, but Tyrion could not help himself” p760 ah, an old story, Tyrion, you just can't help yourself :)

“The sow I ride is actually my own sister...” p761 if we read this Blisscraft style then I suppose this is a reference to Tyrion's desires for Cersei such as he articulated in Tyrion VII ADWD

“The most insidious thing about bondage was how easy it was to grow accustomed to it” p762

“Brown Ben's smile never reached his eyes. He studied Tyrion as a man might study a talking snake.” p766 ...There are no old, bold, sellswords!

Analysis

Mummery, role play and identity

Nobody calls Tyrion by his actual name in this chapter. At best he is referred to as 'Yollo' the name that his father (and mother?) surrogate gave him in Tyrion III ADWD. Otherwise he is simply one of the the dwarfs who performed before Daenerys.

Both of those suggest roles to be performed. Tyrion plays the role of a slave to the soldiers (“Tyrion affected puzzlement” p757). Mormont by contrast plays no roles (p758). His folly is permanent and inescapable as evidenced by his beatings.

Although allegedly “The Second Sons have no place for mummers” p768 on the whole the free companies seem to be the perfect place for mummers. We learn that some of the men in the Golden company and Quentyn take false identities on joining the company. Free Companies can be fickle and change sides which can require a certain degree of play acting as we see with the Tattered Prince.

In this chapter Tyrion moves from a slave status in which you identity is created for you, like “Nurse” or “Sweets” to a mercenary status in which you can create your own identity.

Father and son

Unsurprisingly Tyrion is still dealing with his father's legacy. On the one hand he thinks that “Parchments had been signed, but wars were not fought on parchments.” This is an interesting twist on Tywin's statement in Tyrion I ASOS that some battles are won with letters and Tyrion's very own Dornish alliance.

Later however Tyrion reflects at the well that Daenerys is an inexperienced warmaker since poisoning the wells “was what his lord father would have done, Tyrion did not doubt” p760.

His slave status and mummery was something we can be certain that Tywin would have hated, while being eaten by lions, aside from the nod to Illyrio's invitation to enter a lion's cage at the collection of the Prince of Pentos, is an unknowing yet ironic nod to his Lannister status, a lion of the Rock. “An honor indistinguishable from a death warrant.“ p754 as Tyrion thinks about being one of “One of Yezzan's special treasures.“ ADWD is a tight little package. Illyrio in Tyrion I ADWD tells us of the two faces of the Volantis coin, a crown on one side a death's head on the other. To be in a position of honour is to be close to death. To be one of Yezzan's treasures is like being Hand of the king (thinking of Tyrion's and Littlefinger's exchange in Tyrion I ACOK) or indeed being one of Tywin Lannister's children. At once in a place of power and destruction.

Violence

Which leads me on to violence. We've seen in the previous chapter the violence visited on the slaves. Tyrion is hit by the auctioneer because he can. The slaves are used for target practice because they can. The slave soldier hits Tyrion because he can.

Violence is the empowerment act. Tyrion feeds Nurse “Watered wine and lemonsweet and some nice hot dogtail soup, with slivers of mushroom in the broth...” it is hard to believe that those old mushrooms would still be effective after all that time in Tyrion's boot, but Tyrion clearly believes that they hastened Nurse's end and that is what matters here. A Lannister always pays his debts p756.

Violence is Tyrion's ideal 'solution' to Penny's innocence “Instead of giving her a good hard crack across that ugly face of hers to knock the blinders from her eyes, he would find himself squeezing her shoulder or giving her a hug” p764.

Perhaps violence was always Tyrion's empowerment act (Joffrey in Tyrion I AGOT, Marillon's fingers in Tyrion IV AGOT, etc). Another lasting lesson taught by Tywin.

[SeanF]

But also here I think we revisit Tyrion's attitude to his own servants in AGOT. Their deaths are an inconvenience to him, not a human loss. Their leal service expected and no comfort required for them at the inn, their dignity is neither here nor there - they should perhaps be grateful to serve the noble son of Tywin, just as Nurse makes clear how grateful Tyrion should be to be the slave of the Yellow Whale.

Tyrion comments (I think in the next chapter) that there isn't much difference between the status of slaves in Essos and servants in Westeros.. Far from being an astute observation, I've always thought this an example of moral blindness on his part (servants in Westeros aren't fed to lions, forced to participate in gladiatorial contests, and don't face being pelted to death with sling shots if they run off) - perhaps a way of excusing to himself his treatment of the bed slave in Volantis. But, in the light of your comment, I wonder if he's commenting specifically on the way that he and his family behave towards their servants.

[Lummel]

Tyrion comments (I think in the next chapter) that there isn't much difference between the status of slaves in Essos and servants in Westeros.. Far from being an astute observation, I've always thought this an example of moral blindness on his part (servants in Westeros aren't fed to lions, forced to participate in gladiatorial contests, and don't face being pelted to death with sling shots if they run off) - perhaps a way of excusing to himself his treatment of the bed slave in Volantis. But, in the light of your comment, I wonder if he's commenting specifically on the way that he and his family behave towards their servants.

Yes I wonder too. You are referring to this in Tyrion XI:

"Tyrion did not dispute him. The most insidious thing about bondage was how easy it was to grow accustomed to it. The life of most slaves was not all that different from the life of a serving man at Casterly Rock, it seemed to him. True, some slaveowners and their overseers were brutal and cruel. but the same was true of some Westerosi lords and their stewards and bailiffs. Most of the Yunkai'i treated their chattels decently enough, so long as they did their jobs and caused no trouble..." p762

OK. I first read that as Tyrion thinking that slavery was not that bad. But really we could read this as meaning that being a servant of House Lannister in Casterly Rock is as bad as being a slave in Essos. The joke between Tysha and Tyrion about how servants are treated in Casterly Rock if the fires go out suggests that something nasty was the normal result of a failure to meet the job requirements. In Casterly Rock after all a woman is gang raped as a punishment and indeed Tyrion still thinks it would have been acceptable to gang rape a prostitute for marrying a Lannister - the shock to his moral system comes not from the action but the social status of the victim. It's the revelation that she was a crofter's daughter and not a prostitute that shocks Tyrion.

What do we see of the treatment of slaves by the Yunkai and other slave owners? Casual violence, the use of a person for sexual pleasure, denial of person-hood and here what does Tyrion call slaves here? He calls them chattels - that is to say moveable property! His choice of language denies their humanity.

So I'm leaning I thnk to the view that this is really a condemnation of Tyrion's attitude towards his servants and the servants of Casterly Rock.

This I also find telling:

"You will find, Lord Plumm, that I can be very generous to my friends. If you doubt me, ask Bronn. Ask Shagga, son of Dolf. Ask Timett, son of Timett." p 768

Well, firstly Brown Ben Plumm can't ask any of these people anything. It is an idle reassurance. Secondly we know that Bronn was rewarded...by Tywin and Cersei! The Mountain Clans were run off after the Battle of the Blackwater apart from those who stayed to plunder in the King's Wood. The only reward they got from Tyrion was the freedom to rob and murder in King's Landing since Tyrion let them off any crimes they committed. Tyrion lets them fed off the scraps just as the slaves get to eat the scraps off Yezzan's feast.

[SeanF]

Tyrion's attitude towards servants and Small Folk, if not as bad as his father's and sister's, is still pretty poor. As you said, he wasn't much bothered when his servants got killed; when he sees Masha Heddle's corpse hanging outside her Inn, he just quips about it He behaves pretty poorly towards Shae (admittedly, not a very sympathetic character); he arms the Mountain Clans so they can raid the Small Folk in the Vale; he lets Clansmen get away with crimes in Kings Landing; he threatens to strangle Illyrio's bed slave; his response towards the sufferings in the Riverlands is "it's called war."

While he does make an effort to feed the inhabitants of King's Landing, I think it's more because he fears a complete breakdown of law and order, if they're starving, than because he feels any real sympathy for them.

I'm pretty sure that plenty of the nobility in Westeros think in much the same way, but it's clear there are some (such as the Tullys, Starks, Lady Smallwood, and Prince Doran) who are more sympathetic and enlightened.

One of the interesting things about Tyrion's story in ADWD is that it's gradually being made clear to him that for all his self-pity about being a dwarf, being denied Casterly Rock, being made Master of Coin instead of acting Hand, he was one of the most powerful and privileged men in Westeros.

[Winterfellian]

Nice job Lummel!

Yes we have reached agreement after a prolonged struggle more bitter and bloody thirsty than the struggle for the Iron Throne itself about who we will reread next ;)

Can I ask which character did you choose? Or is it a secret of state and I will have to get myself a little bird in order to find out? :)

Some random thought on this chapter...

Freedon and Deliverance

I think this are 2 concepts heavily present in Tyrion's last chapters and find a resolution in this one. In last chapter (?) Tyrion reassures himself that if necessary he will see to his and Penny's deliverance through the mushrooms, a deliverance he has been contemplating throughout the course of his ADWD arch. I thought it passing odd the choice of the wording and in this chapter we see what kind of deliverance/freedom awaits those slaves a master frees before his death- the privilege to following said master into the grave.

When facing this prospect Tyrion makes a choice, and not surprisingly, he embraces something he has embraced from the very beggining of his story-survival. After all, death is so final whereas life is full of possibilities. If early ADWD Tyrion equated death to deliverance now he has come full circle and understands the concept as a freedom from bondage. But Tyrion is not one to wait for miracle recoveries or silver queens, he still kept to his resolution and saw for his and Penny's salvation himself taking Jorah with along with them.

The nearest well was south and west from the Harridan so they set off in that direction, the bells in their collars ringing merrily with every step...the chime of those little bells proclaim their value to anyone with ears...every time they shuffled forward another place the bells on their collars tinked brightly, such a happy sound it makes me want to scoop out someone's eyeballs with a spoon

All this talk of bells brings to mind our dear Jon Connigton, another man haunted by the sound of bells, even if it is in a less literal sense. Both he and Tyrion are being captive by this bells. The bells don't only keep them trapped, one in the past and the other in the present purgatory he's currently in, but they also define their paths and who they are much to their dislike. At the same time looking to free themselves from them they both turned to solutions that appeared to be clouded with violence.

[Fire Eater]

“Brown Ben's smile never reached his eyes. He studied Tyrion as a man might study a talking snake.”

This is a reference to Genesis when a talking snake tempts Adam and Eve into eating the forbidden fruit, in some versions such as Paradise Lost, the snake is the devil.

The golden bells Tyrion and Penny wear could be a reference to Exodus, where the Kohein Gadol, High Priest of the Jewish Temple, would wear golden bells in his garments. He was charged with entering the Holy of Holies during Yom Kippur to make atonement for his house. Tyrion may be the one to make atonement for his house to Dany, regarded as a demigod figure by her people.

[Ragnorak]

Nice Job, Lummel.

I like the biblical tie in,Fire Eater.

Winterfellian, I got hung up on the bells tingling which put my mind in the Dothraki victory frame of reference for which I was coming up empty. I like the Connington haunted parallel.

One of the things that stands out most for me in rereading was how upbeat Tyrion's internal life is compared to... well every other chapter in this book. He's a slave in a plague ridden seige camp who may be facing death in less than a day and he may be internally happier than we've seen him the whole series.

My initial impression is that Tyrion is being paternal to Penny and extending a fatherly protection but I'm going to ponder that more before I try and elaborate on it.

[Uncat]

Winterfellian:

But Tyrion is not one to wait for miracle recoveries or silver queens, he still kept to his resolution and saw for his and Penny's salvation himself taking Jorah with along with them.

Again the parallel to Arya: Tyrion has a pack now and he won't abandon it. There is a fealing, that if one would read the final Harrenhall chapters side by side with the Yunkish camp chapters, a lot more parallels and opposing elements would surface.

I know, I'm not the first one to note this, but I'll say it anyway. The wolf and the lion kids are really entangled characters defined by parallels and oppositions. This works for the bunch, but also on individual levels. There are no exact pairs and more then often it is rathe build around common issues (like Jon and Jaime and Cersei learning to lead while Cersei and Sansa are entangled about the highborne women issue, Tyrion and Jon both need to cope with their "daddy, bastard and never an heir" issues and Tyrion and Arya are deprived of their priveleges and on the run. And more the often, the paralles are in the look - i.e. in setting and actions - creating opposing vectors in the feel - i.e. the emotional and personal development.

[Lummel]

...Freedon and Deliverance

I think this are 2 concepts heavily present in Tyrion's last chapters and find a resolution in this one. In last chapter (?) Tyrion reassures himself that if necessary he will see to his and Penny's deliverance through the mushrooms, a deliverance he has been contemplating throughout the course of his ADWD arch. I thought it passing odd the choice of the wording and in this chapter we see what kind of deliverance/freedom awaits those slaves a master frees before his death- the privilege to following said master into the grave...

All this talk of bells brings to mind our dear Jon Connigton, another man haunted by the sound of bells, even if it is in a less literal sense. Both he and Tyrion are being captive by this bells. The bells don't only keep them trapped, one in the past and the other in the present purgatory he's currently in, but they also define their paths and who they are much to their dislike. At the same time looking to free themselves from them they both turned to solutions that appeared to be clouded with violence.

It's a state secret that we settled on jon snow. Shhh, don't tell anyone.

I like your freedom and delieverance angle and yes it is telling that suicide by mushroom that Tyrion thought as an escape is also the validation of slave status - the most loved slave is lucky and gets to be killed when their owner dies. It is no escape.

But if we talk about freedom from bondage that's quite a broad concept to apply to Tyrion. He was in bondage to his father's will, to his father's opinions, to the 'needs' of house lannister (as defined by Tywin). As he says “The most insidious thing about bondage was how easy it was to grow accustomed to it” p762 and Tywin is a presence in this chapter. I think it remains to be seen how effectively or if he has freed himself from that. He certainly hasn't freed himself from Casterly Rock.

The collar round his neck is easier to escape from than those mind-forg'd manacles, which like you say have trapped Connington so completely.

Very nice of you too to tie up with the very first chapter as well! Life remains full of possibilities for Tyrion.

“Brown Ben's smile never reached his eyes. He studied Tyrion as a man might study a talking snake.”

This is a reference to Genesis when a talking snake tempts Adam and Eve into eating the forbidden fruit, in some versions such as Paradise Lost, the snake is the devil...

Excellent, Tyrion is the forbidden fruit. The temptation to turncoat, the temptation of riches and worst of all the temptation of returning to Westeros.

...One of the things that stands out most for me in rereading was how upbeat Tyrion's internal life is compared to... well every other chapter in this book. He's a slave in a plague ridden seige camp who may be facing death in less than a day and he may be internally happier than we've seen him the whole series.

My initial impression is that Tyrion is being paternal to Penny and extending a fatherly protection but I'm going to ponder that more before I try and elaborate on it.

Being a slave in a plague ridden camp certainly seems to take ones mind off your own problems. I'm not sure if fatherly is quite appropriate (particularly considering Tyrion's father as his potential role model), his thought is that he wants to hit her and the language is "a good hard crack" suggests pleasure and delight in the sound and action of the blow, 'across her ugly face' is interesting coming from Tyrion half-nose.

Perhaps Uncats's conception of the pack is helpful here. Dogs and wolves brought together into an articifal pack will fight for dominance, a male lion who joins a pride will eat any cubs that were fathered by a different lion. The desire for violence is dominance behaviour maybe, although he demonstrates his leadership over Penny and Mormont in this chapter.

...I know, I'm not the first one to note this, but I'll say it anyway. The wolf and the lion kids are really entangled characters defined by parallels and oppositions. This works for the bunch, but also on individual levels. There are no exact pairs and more then often it is rathe build around common issues (like Jon and Jaime and Cersei learning to lead while Cersei and Sansa are entangled about the highborne women issue, Tyrion and Jon both need to cope with their "daddy, bastard and never an heir" issues and Tyrion and Arya are deprived of their priveleges and on the run. And more the often, the paralles are in the look - i.e. in setting and actions - creating opposing vectors in the feel - i.e. the emotional and personal development.

yes and there is also the element as Woman of War said of ASOIAF as social experiment. We put their characters under pressure, into stress positions and then compare and contrast them.

[Ragnorak]

Lummel, Tyrion is showing affection toward Penny and I don't think it is romantic at all. It could be friendship with a bit of a leadership role thrown in which would fit with the pack concept. There is a repeated theme of lying to her to shelter her from the harshness of the reality they find themselves in which is a bit paternal. He also views Penny as childlike and thinks of her as younger than Sansa in some respects.

Freud said that all we really have in life is love and work which happen to be the two things Tyrion was always looking for from his father. If Illyrio and Yezzan are surrogate father figures Illyrio gave him important work and Yezzan gave him love. Tyrion associates Tywin's shit with his own act of killing him and here we have a father figure shitting and dying and Tyrion is actually cleaning up the shit. The Second Sons is a group of people whose identities are defined relative to their fathers and specifically being denied the family legacy. The act of going to the Second Sons is really the first step in claiming his birth right like we suggested he ought to have done in the beginning of Storm. Tyrion seems to be stepping into his father's shoes and under that umbrella does being paternal toward Penny fit?

It could also be a friendship thing. Tyrion felt incredibly awkward at the notion of the emotions of friendship back with Jon in GoT. He is far more comfortable with the concept here with Penny and even Jorah. Despite still opening his mouth when he thinks he ought not, Tywin previously told him that he talks too much thought much of that was born of his seeking Tywin's approval. Tyrion also shows a great deal of restraint and doesn't have the rage at being humiliated that has characterized his past. He just accepts the blows from the slave soldiers as part of his reality instead of as a personal insult or part of his curse at being a dwarf.

[Isildur's Mane]

Yes we have reached agreement after a prolonged struggle more bitter and bloody thirsty than the struggle for the Iron Throne itself about who we will reread next ;)

...

Ooooo. I was going to ask you who, but then I saw your answer in your last post. Can't wait :)

...

My initial impression is that Tyrion is being paternal to Penny and extending a fatherly protection but I'm going to ponder that more before I try and elaborate on it.

For some reason I get the feeling it is an older brother being a bit protective of his younger, slightly annoying and naive sister - Or at least that is what it feels like to me.

Also this quote made me think of something:

'Lions. They were going to set lions on us. It would have been exquisitely ironic, that. Perhaps her would have had time for a short, bitter chortle before being torn apart.'

I thought it was curious that he was saved fron lions by the Mother of Dragons. For some reason it reminded me of, bin GoT, when he told Jon that he used to dream of dragons... Saved from his family by his childhood dreams?

But it could also mean saved from his family by his family's old enemy?

Not sure where I'm going with this - it's late here so I think I will sleep on it and maybe expand in the morning.