Take Back the Mirror: Body Image II

[Lord O' Bones]

Who is getting down on people wearing makeup? I thought 12 year old girls were mentioned. Isn't that part of the perceived problem under discussion?

[Lord O' Bones]

This story about Hannah Simone came out the same day the old thread hit 400 but I thought it was interesting.

http://shine.yahoo.c...-180329924.html

Her perception is that being called curvy is akin to being called fat but in my 41 years I've never heard that before. This isn't the same as the "real women have curves" discussion, just that being called curvy now means fat. Is that the common perception? I've used that as a descriptor because, it seemed to me, that it didn't have a judgement in it. I've heard and seen it used as a description without it being considered negative. Is the more common perception that it is just a euphemism?

I don't know for sure, but I'd just go with hourglass, voluptuous, or rubenesque; whichever is more appropriate. At least you'd know by the lack of a blank look on their face that the person you're addressing isn't a moron.

[deleted01]

I think that sometimes using the word 'curvy' is a nicer way of calling someone fat. I've also heard the phrases 'she's a big girl' and 'she's not small', usually followed by 'bless her' <_< So yeah, in that way it does kind of have a negative attachment to it. But personally, curvy means exactly what it is - a lady with curves.

I also have something to add with regard to height. I'm short, but as discussed in the previous thread it's never truly bothered me. I do however find it strange that it's socially acceptable for people to take the piss out of people for being short. For our crime scene module last year, we all had to have 'mug shots' taken, and of course our height is measured for that. There was loads of joking about how the person measuring me had to stoop down, and the person taking the photographs had to bring the tripod down, and so on. Ha ha. These things had to happen, because I am short, but I just think it's lucky I'm not sensitive about it. I can laugh it off and it won't bother me, but it does strike me how acceptable it is for people to openly mock another person about the way they look. It's definitely not as acceptable to do so with regard to weight, skin, hair, etc.

I've found that men are generally more sensitive about their height, and even my boyfriend constantly feels the need to comment on how short I am, when he's a few inches taller at the most. He knows it doesn't bother me, which is why he does it, but I do wonder why people always feel the need to comment on it. I bump into an old friend, the first thing that usually comes out of their mouth is 'Oh you haven't grown yet then'. Well, no, I highly doubt that's going to happen now. :rolleyes:

[Prince Alexander]

I don't know for sure, but I'd just go with hourglass, voluptuous, or rubenesque; whichever is more appropriate. At least you'd know by the lack of a blank look on their face that the person you're addressing isn't a moron.

Eh, looking at it rationally, I'd say there is skinny or small+curvy and big+curvy. Big curvy often (in my anecdotal experience) gets attributed to what is also often called "pear-shaped", "fat" or "a bit too much".

It's all about proportions. Someone with a really narrow waist can still have curves/hourglass shape (my SO is something like 90 pounds, and she's very curvy).

Oh, and I wouldn't judge anything at all in media photos like the ones from the article. You need to see the person in real life and without flattering clothes/make up to really figure out their shape. Except... who cares? the obsession with bodies of celebs/friends/strangers needs to stop on a personal level. I've met so many women who had absolutely no congruence between their looks/intelligence/skill in bed, and they were of all shapes and sizes. So, really, who cares?

[Lord O' Bones]

Except... who cares?

I'm with you brother! Except this is a discussion board. You can't really talk about something that you don't care about and then claim you don't care about it at all.

[Prince Alexander]

I'm with you brother! Except this is a discussion board. You can't really talk about something that you don't care about and then claim you don't care about it at all.

I care in the sense that want to fight the power of media. I guess I care about people caring, when they shouldn't have to! I don't know if that's valid.

[Lord O' Bones]

Sounds pretty valid to me.

[Whitestripe]

My husband and I try to counter this by trying to be good examples. My children like that I compete in triathlons and are proud of my success in the sport. I tell them that I like my body, it makes me go fast. But other than striving to be an example, emphasizing a healthy lifestyle, and affirming them in a positive, yet realistic way, I don't know what more my husband and I can do.

I think that's really all you can do. They don't live in a vacuum, but you are the ones who can be the most influential.

Re: Being short

My children are almost the exact same size, even though they are two years apart in age. My son is extremely small for his age. He's easily the shortest and slightest child in his class. Almost every week, somebody asks me if they are twins. When I say "no," the questions start.

"Who is older?"

"My son, by two years."

"But they are the same size."

"I know."

"Is he really small or is she really big?"

My typical response is "Henry started out small, and hasn't quite caught up yet."

Of course, I try not to say any of this in his hearing. I mean really, why should strangers even care, and what gives them the right to comment any way?

[Elder Sister]

I have always relied on the stupidity of strangers.

[Castel]

I care in the sense that want to fight the power of media. I guess I care about people caring, when they shouldn't have to! I don't know if that's valid.

Just curious: do you think that this is ever going to change? People caring about the media? Because I'm on the pessimistic side myself.

You need to see the person in real life and without flattering clothes/make up to really figure out their shape. Except... who cares? the obsession with bodies of celebs/friends/strangers needs to stop on a personal level. I've met so many women who had absolutely no congruence between their looks/intelligence/skill in bed, and they were of all shapes and sizes. So, really, who cares?

But more importantly,right now, since people care and no one is breaking the power of the media is it not worth addressing?

[Regina]

I have always relied on the stupidity of strangers.

Sadly true.

[Prince Alexander]

Just curious: do you think that this is ever going to change? People caring about the media? Because I'm on the pessimistic side myself.

I am also pessimistic, but I fully believe there is potential for this change to occur. I think I`m personally pretty close to shutting out alot/all of unwanted/destructive media out of my life. If I can, I think (many) others can too.

[MinDonner]

Who is getting down on people wearing makeup? I thought 12 year old girls were mentioned. Isn't that part of the perceived problem under discussion?

There are many valid criticisms of 12-year-olds wearing makeup. But in the context of actively trying to ditch the whole principle of body-shaming and judging people on their appearances (ie. the purpose of this thread), these do not include "eww they look so plastic" and similar appearance-related condemnations, which feeds right back into the whole cycle of crap.

[Lummel]

There are many valid criticisms of 12-year-olds wearing makeup. But in the context of actively trying to ditch the whole principle of body-shaming and judging people on their appearances (ie. the purpose of this thread), these do not include "eww they look so plastic" and similar appearance-related condemnations, which feeds right back into the whole cycle of crap.

and speaking of cycles of crap :commie: WHERE ARE SIKHS? :commie: IS ROCKSON DEAD? :commie: ARE THERE MORE TURBO MUTANT NINJA HORSEYS? :commie:

[smegma]

I read the other thread, and I just had to echo something that Starkess said. It's less about seeing women on magazines and television looking perfect because we know they have a lot of assistance. But when I see women in person that are beyond gorgeous (and living in the big city, there's tons of 'em), it really throws me for a loop. I mean, I'm pretty cute. I have never felt hindered by my looks whatsoever, even when I was overweight I didn't feel awful and I have never had any difficulty or even concern about "landing a guy". But seriously, when it's 7am and I've rolled out of bed and thrown whatever on and stumble onto the train and run into all these perfect-looking women, that is astonishing to me.

Anyway, I've spent my life on two vastly different ends of the spectrum - when I was younger, I was blessed with an awesome body and beautiful hair, but my jaw was misaligned and I had a terrible overbite that really detracted from my looks (but I still smiled constantly and despite the aesthetic issue, it didn't bother me and I had a lot of self-confidence). Then as I've gotten older and dealing with thyroid issues, I lost a lot of my hair and gained a lot of weight, mostly in my stomach and face, but then I had surgery for my jaw and now I have a great smile but those other things need work. But, my hair has stopped falling out and it's growing back (don't get me wrong, it's still a decent amount but it's nowhere near as beautiful as it was) and I've gotten my thyroid adjusted, as well as eating better and being more active so I'm slowly but surely losing the weight and have about twenty pounds left til I feel I reach my ideal, which is about 115 for someone with as small a frame as I have.

So anyway, I think despite these things I have a lot of self-confidence overall, I just get little twinges of envy when I realize that there are "real" women out there all over the places that are every bit as good looking as those you see on tv.

Overall, I think I definitely more in the "good" self-confidence boat than not, even when I'm not totally happy with my appearance at a given time I don't let it affect me too much, I just try to look the best that I can with what I have. But even so, I have my low moments, I am just thankful they aren't plentiful.

[smegma]

Oh and I just wanted to bring up the mother/daughter insecurity thing too, because now I feel really freaking guilty for ever getting on my daughter about her looks in any way. She's a really super cute girl, but she gets lazy and doesn't wash her face enough, or put any effort at all into her looks or hair or anything. Neither did I at that age, and looking back I think I wasted my great figure wearing baggy boys clothes and no make-up. She also seems much happier on the days that she does put in effort. so I nag a little about taking better care of herself and stuff, but now I just want to hug her and make sure she knows that I love her so much for who she is. I also make fun of her feet, which are really large for her height (her dad has size 14's!), but it was all in good humor. But maybe I'll take it a bit easier on her (however, I think she's also like me in that she's not terribly insecure about her looks, but just to be sure).

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Has anyone seen this artical? I couldn't find the original, just this poll from a news channel. Some of the comments were, I hate to stay, typical.

I like the idea of maniquins coming in all sorts of sizes, just like people do.

[smegma]

Has anyone seen this artical? I couldn't find the original, just this poll from a news channel. Some of the comments were, I hate to stay, typical.

I like the idea of maniquins coming in all sorts of sizes, just like people do.

I don't see anything wrong with a variety of sizes, because there are so many types of bodies - as long as that doesn't exclude thin, healthy women. I really despise the anti-thin movement I've seen occurring, such as others have stated, the "real women have curves" mantra that makes it seem that skinny girls aren't feminine. Feel good about yourself, great, but why does it have to be at the cost of others that are also happy (and healthy) with their weight? As someone who has personally covered all the bases in a short span of my life due to thyroid dysfunction - overly thin (97lbs), obese (178lbs), and a weight that seemed just right for my height/frame (115lbs, and for full disclosure it is closer to the lower end of the healthy weight spectrum), it bothers me - just as cruel fat jokes do, too. But I do appreciate the effort that is being made to broaden the definition of ideal. Those particular examples of mannequins seem to be a good sampling of variety and reflective of reality, while still being attractive.

[Francis Buck]

I've managed to become pretty comfortable with my body, although that was not at all the case when I was younger. I was rather chubby for most of my life until the summer before my senior year of high school when I lost a little over fifty pounds (primarily from doing P90X, which I actually kind of half-assed and really only used three or four of the videos, but it worked). I like my face --- mainly my eyes and mouth, I don't really like my nose -- and my shoulders/arms. I hate my hair. It grows really fast, it's super thick, super wavy, and is very hard to do anything with, so I generally just keep it relatively short.

[Chaldanya]

I absolutely agree, smegma. I'd like the mantra to be "real women come in all shapes and sizes"

N