Would you have supported Daemon Blackfyre?

[mindchap]

It looks like it was much more than just the sword. there were rumors that Daereon was the son of Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, then there was the deal with their sister Danaerys who Dareon gave in marriage to some Prince of Dorne.

But that's just it, they were rumors, and in this universe those can be far-fetched(army of wargs) and right on(twincest) but until George gives us something more solid I have to go with Daeron. Nearly all the Redgrass Field info that we have came from Ser Eustace, who loved Daemon. I'm really hoping for a view from Ser Maynard on the events of that day, but that may be a long way off.

But on a personal note, from what I know of the characters I tend to like Daemon more than Daeron as far as character goes.

[Veltigar]

On top of Daeron II his side also had Baelor Breakspear, one of the greatest Targaryens in the history of Westeros. I'd fight for Baelor.

[Pootie Tang]

No. He seemed like a good man, but had no good reason to rebel in my opinion. I think a rebellion should only be fought for reasons such as Roberts Rebellion. Same goes for Renly he is not right.

Robert rebelled for the same reason.

[lorddemon]

Daemon is a complete badass and it's not suprising that he gathered so much followers, after all, he did look like Aegon the Conqueror and fought with the ancestral blade Blackfyre. If I was a bastard, I'd probably join him too just because in a way, he stood up for bastards who couldn't get the honor just for having a name they couldn't choose.

[Morienthar]

As a Warrior or a wandering sword for hire,Absolutely.

As a lord with a castle and people to protect,I'd think twice about it and consider where I live and such things.

[danm_999]

Robert rebelled for the same reason.

Nope. Robert rebelled because Aerys was trying to kill him and Ned.

Daeron was not trying to kill Daemon.

[James Arryn]

Nope. Robert rebelled because Aerys was trying to kill him and Ned.

We don't know for sure. He might have rebelled because of Lyanna. The man who did rebel because Aerys wanted Ned and Robert's heads was Jon Arryn.

[Nictarion]

If I was a bastard, I'd probably join him too just because in a way, he stood up for bastards who couldn't get the honor just for having a name they couldn't choose.

Daemon could have taken the Targaryen name though, his father legitimized him. He chose Blackfyre for his name, which was a stupid move, imo.

[danm_999]

We don't know for sure. He might have rebelled because of Lyanna. The man who did rebel because Aerys wanted Ned and Robert's heads was Jon Arryn.

I'm very skeptical of that given he didn't even go looking for her once he had captured King's Landing. Instead he bedded a whole bunch of whores during his campaign.

That and the way he reflects on the Rebellion as some great adventure between him and Ned, which seems an odd way to remember things if his motivation was truly out of concern for, and to rescue the women he believed was being raped.

[Faydra]

I would have supported Daeron II as I really despise the Blackfyres.

[James Arryn]

I'm very skeptical of that given he didn't even go looking for her once he had captured King's Landing.

But we just don't know. Technically he was a rebel as soon as Aerys declared him an outlaw. But the sequence of events never clarifies Robert's motives.

1) Rhaegar/Lyanna

2) Brandon 'come out to die'

3) Rickard/Brandon trial, etc.

4) Demand for heads of Robert and Ned

5) Jon Arryn raises his banners in response.

6) Ned and Robert set out to try and get to their homelands.

7) various inter regional battles

8) Robert and Ned reach their homelands, raise banners

9) Tully tripartite alliances

10) Decision to front Robert's claim as best among them

At no point are we given Robert's thinking, and his memories of the time all revolve around Lyanna. I think the most obvious line is that he was in a murderous rage from the first he heard about Rhaegar/Lyanna, but unable to do anything, or even knowing what to do, until Arryn revolted. At which point he had a direction for his rage.

In any event, we are not, that I recall, ever told he rebelled in he face of Aerys' threats. In fact we are repeatedly and specifically told Jon Arryn did do, which would seem an odd isolation if he was doing it in conjunction with 2 other great lords.

[TheSmilingKnight11]

Good warriors can make good Kings (e.g Henry V, Edward III, Harold II etc, all Kings of England), but if someone is only a warrior they may not. Blackfyre, to me, looks like some prancing prat with a handsome face and a cool sword.

This is fiction. So you shouldn't compare anyone to real kings. And Edward the third wasn't a great warrior. It was Edward the IV that was a warrior and never lost a battle

[danm_999]

But we just don't know.

Of course we do;

“Robert, I ask you, what did we rise against Aerys Targaryen for, if not to put an end to the murder of children?”

“To put an end to Targaryens!” the king growled.

Not to save Lyanna. Robert rose against the Targaryens to put an end to them because they tried to put an end to him.

And I'll reiterate, the way Robert conducted himself during the Rebellion; bedding whores, remembering it fondly, not searching for Lyanna himself after the sack, all belies the idea that's why he rebelled.

Now, do you have some evidence or reasoning to say he rebelled for Lyanna, or are you content to keep saying "we don't know"?

[James Arryn]

Not sure where 'save' entered into it.

I said 'because of'/for'...ie, revenge. Which fits perfectly with the quote you mentioned. As per the 'rage' I mentioned.

So, yes, perfectly comfortable.

Of course we do;

Not to save Lyanna. Robert rose against the Targaryens to put an end to them because they tried to put an end to him.

And I'll reiterate, the way Robert conducted himself during the Rebellion; bedding whores, remembering it fondly, not searching for Lyanna himself after the sack, all belies the idea that's why he rebelled.

Now, do you have some evidence or reasoning to say he rebelled for Lyanna, or are you content to keep saying "we don't know"?

[The Dragon Queen]

NO

Well I'm siding with Daeron because he has Bloodraven on his side. Not going against good old BR.

yes :agree: BR supported the right brother! no Blackfyre will get anywhere near the IT

[mindchap]

Could you imagine what our novels would have looked like if Daemon had been crowned instead of Daeron? An Aegon and Aemon who were once compared to Aerion Brightflame, the Brown Dragon, and eventually they would have had to forge another tiny little crown for Maelys' little extra head. Kind of makes Aerys look pretty good.

[Vuron]

I've run into a similar situation while playing the Game of Thrones mod for Crusader Kings II. Just last night, I was 3 generations in and had 2 sons. My heir had crappy traits and stats, while the other was a great general with very high stats. I was just hoping that my heir would die before having any kids and I know that my 2nd son would have made a much better king. I gave him Valyrian sword, too.

[DavosSeaworthy]

Look, Daemon may have been the better man (though Eustace's claim is no real proof at all), but so what? Daeron was already a competent king and the realm was in fine shape. Getting many thousands killed in a civil war to put someone else on the throne, even if he's more competent, is totally wrong morally and from purely utilitarian PoV.

Great point.

[Pootie Tang]

Nope. Robert rebelled because Aerys was trying to kill him and Ned.

Daeron was not trying to kill Daemon.

Ultimately though, didn't Robert also rebel for the girl?

Fucking whores all awhile was just how he conducted himself. His hatred for the Targs seems rooted in the Lyanna conflict to me. The fact that Aerys called for their head was just the catalyst. Seems to me he rode to war to save Lyanna.

[CosimaistheHottest]

But the thing is Robert never rebelled for Lyanna. Who would actually follow Robert if he just rebelled for some girl even if she was his fiance and a high lord's daughter? Ned, Jon Arryn and Robert rebelled so that they wouldn't be killed for no reason.

People also seem to forget just because the rebellion has Robert's name. If Jon Arryn or Ned Stark had taken the throne, it would have had their names. It was a collective effort of Arryn, Stark and Baratheon.

Some people take Robert too seriously when he says he rebelled for Lyanna. He's a fat drunk who thinks he would have had a better life if she had never been kidnapped or ran off. He probably would have when you think about it. It just makes for a prettier story for Robert.

He rebelled so he wouldn't be killed. After Aery's heir kidnaps or runs away with his fiancee, Robert does nothing. Brandon and Rickard Stark goes to King's Landing and are murdered there along with their companions. Robert does nothing. Aerys calls to Jon Arryn for Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark to be released to him. Jon says no. The banners start being called and this is when the rebellion starts.

So believe fat drunk Robert if you want to, there would be no rebellion for them if it was just about the kidnapping alone. That was the spark.