Robb/Cat at Harrenhall

[Mulled Wino]

Okay, this makes sense to me. They didn't say that, though, and if I as a book reader didn't get it I'm sure any non-book reader who isn't real clear on who the Mountain even is understood what was going on.

And why did he leave?

[jmk51]

I didn't really get it either - I had just watched the prior episode when Tywin put the Mountain in charge. Perhaps Qyburn fills in the details? Or maybe it was the continuation of showing how awful Harranhall is when someone like Tywin isn't around?

More than likely just a throwaway plot device to get Bolton and Qyburn to Harranhall.

[freetickles]

And like I said. they're doing the same thing with Rickard Karstark as he is shown along Bolton in the first episode. The promo of episode 2 shows another interaction between Robb and Rickard, maybe on the road to Riverrun? Maybe the title "dark wings, dark words" refers to

the death of Hoster Tully

I think that's right, and also am hoping it means Robb and Catt will hear about the supposed deaths of Bran and Rickon.

[a white raven]

Throwing her in a dungeon seems to be ratcheting that up.

He didn't throw her in a dungeon, he said something to the effect of "find her a room that will serve as a cell" . She will be under gueard just as she was in the field

[Winterz]

Robb saw the slaughter and then the disgust on his men's faces after seeing their brothers slaughtered like that. They obviously wanted to revenge them with Lannister blood and Catelyn was responsible for preventing one of such revenges so it would make a bad example that Cat, considering what she did, could just walk around while the Lannisters, somewhat bannermen to the man she let escape, were killing their brothers.

[Tywin's bastard]

And why did he leave?

There are several easy explanations to choose from. You asked for a scene with a lightly garrisoned Harenhal being taken, which readily gives a simple solution of that the Mountain realized that he couldn't hold Harrenhal with so few men and therefor left to utilize the mobility of a smaller force.

Why would the show need to tell us every little detail and not expect us to be able to think for ourselves?

[Fengari]

That Robb tells the men to find his mother a chamber that will serve as a cell is no change from before. In the camp he kept her under guard in a comfortable tent, this is the castle version of that: he wants her comfortable but a 'prisoner', probably as much for her own good as to appease his men. That he tells them at that moment (right after she is clearly emotional at seeing one of her father's bannermen slain) also shows her he is still mad at her himself.

The big question of this scene is more why Harrenhall has been abandoned. As always, I'm not judging yet, as there is still a possibility this could be explained next week, through Qyburn.

My guess is Tywin somehow learned of Jaimie's 'escape', which eliminates his need to keep the northern prisoners alive, and he has decided to relieve the Mountain from his prisonguard duties and return him to what he does best, terrorising the land. Which leaves the question, how did Tywin learn that, as I highly doubt that Robb would have sent him a raven saying "Oh yeah, by the way, I lost your son, I guess he'll come running back to you now". On the other hand, it would only be logical for Tywin to have placed some spies in Robb's camp (and of course us bookreaders have a very likely suspect already). I do hope the show will give us an explanation, as things are quite unclear at the moment, especially for non-book-readers.

I do agree the writers did a good job in this sequence of re-establishing both Roose and Karstark, and the dead Tully-bannerman is a good setup for Robb going to the aid of Riverrun. ("Yes mum, I'm being harsh on you but I did notice your sentiment and I'm acting on it. I still love you even though I'm mad at you.").

[Mulled Wino]

There are several easy explanations to choose from. You asked for a scene with a lightly garrisoned Harenhal being taken, which readily gives a simple solution of that the Mountain realized that he couldn't hold Harrenhal with so few men and therefor left to utilize the mobility of a smaller force.

Why would the show need to tell us every little detail and not expect us to be able to think for ourselves?

I presented about 4 options that could have made more sense.

When i see this and think for myself, I think horrible scene that isnt well thought out as a device to get Roose to HH.

You know, as opposed to Robb taking his entire army to besiege an abandoned yet very strategic castle.

[Dragon Doll]

i felt that putting Rob and Cat at Harenhall right after (or what felt like right after) Arya left was a little silly. It makes it feel like they just missed eachother, when in book/reality they didnt come anywhere near eachother. well, not at Harenhall.

the whole scene felt questionable.

[teemo]

it was a strange scene...like it didn't quite fit into the show..confused a lot of viewers.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I think that the Mountain executed all his prisoners when he heard that Robb no longer holds Jaime, so there's no fear of a reprisal. That's why attention suddenly shifts to Cat, and why he makes a show of finding her a cell.

They could have explained it better. I feel like part of that sequence was cut.

This makes so much sense! Although he likely did it on Tywin's orders. I've been wondering since Sunday why the hell so many of Robb's men were dead inside the castle as I didn't recall a scene like that at all from the book.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

What i don't get is, why Cat is imprisoned at HH now. How is this supposed to work out? Oo

[BananaSpice]

i felt that putting Rob and Cat at Harenhall right after (or what felt like right after) Arya left was a little silly. It makes it feel like they just missed eachother, when in book/reality they didnt come anywhere near eachother. well, not at Harenhall.

the whole scene felt questionable.

The fact that Arya and her mom just missed each other was one of the few things I actually liked about the change :crying:

[Nezzer]

At first I was bothered about how harsh Robb was to his mother and how out of character that was, but then I rewatched the scene several times on YouTube and noticed he looked at his men for a long time before sending Cat to her quarters. He sees that Jaime's release ruined the morale of his army, and by punishing his mother he thinks that could boost their morale as he would be doing his best to remedy the situation. I started to like that change.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

What i don't get is, why Cat is imprisoned at HH now. How is this supposed to work out? Oo

She's being held while they're there. Most likely she will join them when they leave for Riverrun. It would be terrible if they go to the Twins without her.

[Arale]

The show is doing a bad job imo at building rob up. I am actually starting to like Roose more than Rob.

I feel exactly the same way about it. So do the 3 people I usually watch the show with (all non-book readers). After Roose's line about having sent some of his men after the Kingslayer, they remarked that he probably distrusts Robb because Robb is reckless, selfish and not smart. And they expect Roose to be the one "with balls", who makes up for his king's (and his mother's) stupid mistakes/questionable choices. I was staring at them speechless, didn't know how to respond to that, knowing what's to come..... :-(

[Damar]

5. Reestablishes the relationship between Cat and his mother-which is one of the basic problems I have with the show robb, I think the northmen would be more angry with Robb over losing several thousand Frey soldiers than the release of the Kingslayer (Karstark excluded)

Having the Kingslayer as their hostage is far more vital to the war effort than having a few thousand men from a Lord who nobody trusts nor likes, and worse, hand him over to the Lannisters in the insane deranged hope that somehow it will have them release the girls, who at this point are the only reason why Robb is still fighting rather than an actual cause, while their homes and lands are being attacked by the Ironborn because Robb thought it was a smart idea to release their Greyjoy hostage who than attacked Winterfell and burned the only two other Stark heirs..

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Yeah, I didn't like how the jump was made in the conversation from Gregor Clegane to the Kingslayer. Jaime Lannister obviously wasn't responsible for the deaths at Harrenhal.

Personally, I think they just wanted to foreshadow the traiterous scum that Roose will become when he hands Jaime Lannister back to Tywin. His first direct act of treachery prior to RW

But yes, with regards to Catelyn, he's punishing her for her earlier crime, as Ran said.

I agree. But it's a minor thing.

[David Selig]

Can anyone explain why Rickard Karstark wasn't arrested or punished in any way? After all he tried to get Jaime killed against Robb's command. Seems like Robb still has no clue about this, which makes no sense given that IIRC the whole camp was aware what Rickard tried to do.

[Kittykatknits]

I thought that it was pretty clear from the episode that the reason Robb sent Cat to a cell in Harrenhal is to appease his men. He looks up at all of his Northern soldiers just before he sends her away.

Maybe I just misinterpreted that scene entirely.

That was my understanding as well, doesn't mean I like it any better.

Can anyone explain why Rickard Karstark wasn't arrested or punished in any way? After all he tried to get Jaime killed against Robb's command. Seems like Robb still has no clue about this, which makes no sense given that IIRC the whole camp was aware what Rickard tried to do.

Yes, this!! I was coming on here to ask the exact same question. Why is it that killing Jaime would have been acceptable yet releasing him was wrong? And, if Jaime's release is what led to the death of all the Northman, what would have happened if word got out that the Starks had him killed? I'm pretty certain all those men would not have just been freed and sent on their merry way. For some reason, the role Karstark played in setting everything in motion is overlooked while this is all Cat's fault.

The only thing this scene did for me is make me dislike Robb even more.