Tyrion is a Targaryen (His Siblings may be as well)

[Mladen]

Tywin is the type of man that likes having power. He would not give up on being Hand of the King so easy unless it was something that really broke him down. Jaime joining the Kingsguard, well he was still in the Kingsguard when Tywin became Joffrey's hand. Cersei didn't marry Rhaegar, oh well she became queen later on. Tywin probably didn't leave his position as Aerys' hand because of those reasons.

He left Aerys specifically for Jaime, for taking his heir. He hadn`t abandoned Aerys during Joanna`s life, or when Tyrion was born. He abandoned his position when he took Jaime from him. That`s your contradiction.

During Joffrey`s reign, after Cersei fired Barristan Selmy, Tywin planned to get Jaime out of his servitude to Kingsguard and appoint him as an heir of CR.

[Mladen]

And if Tyrion turn out to be a Targ, then there would be a connection.

If there is a connection, there is a connection. Not that would be connestion, if he turns out to be...

[-Ghost-]

Yes. But the only other one is Euron. He has traveled the Valyrian Ruins. The Targaryens were a Valyrian family before fleeing to Dragonstone. He drinks Shade of the Evening, something that turns your lips blue. The warlocks drink shade of the evening, i'm pretty sure they have blue eyes and blue lips to. Also, the vision about Euron being the biggest threat to Daenary. You can't deny that there is something there.

Shade of the evening has NOTHING to do with Eurons eye. He just started drinking it when he captured the 3 warlocks and they had it with them. Euron has a blue eye and a black eye that he keeps under his eye patch. He is called Crows Eye because of his one black eye. There is also no actual proof the Euron has been to Valyria, only his word. He has a crew of mutes that can't deny it. There is also no actual proof that Euron had a dragon egg, except his word. You believe these things because Euron said it, but don't believe Tywin when he says Jaime and Tyrion are his kids.

[-Ghost-]

Tyrion has two different eye colors, like Sheria Seastar another Targaryen had. Tyrion has Whitish Blond hair. There is also a scene where Arianne Martell says Darkstars eyes are so dark they look black, but they are actually purple.

Aegon the Conqueror is described as tall, broad shouldered and powerful in appearance with purple eyes and cut short silver-gold hair.

And at the same time, ALL THREE OF THEM STILL HAVE LANNISTER BLOOD IN THEM even if Tywin isnt their father. Joanna is a Lannister, and FIRST COUSIN at that.

Tommen has the same color hair as Tyrion. Lancel has sandy blonde hair. Not all Lannisters have the same golden blonde hair. Tyrion himself says his eyes are black and green. Many characters have commented on his mismatched black and green eyes.

[Secret of Nym]

No, this is proof that a lot of people are interested in this theory and that people new to the site may not know how to search through old threads. No need to be rude or insulting.

This. Thank you.

[mattah84]

He left Aerys specifically for Jaime, for taking his heir. He hadn`t abandoned Aerys during Joanna`s life, or when Tyrion was born. He abandoned his position when he took Jaime from him. That`s your contradiction.

During Joffrey`s reign, after Cersei fired Barristan Selmy, Tywin planned to get Jaime out of his servitude to Kingsguard and appoint him as an heir of CR.

I agree that Jamie being taken into the Kingsguard was a move that pissed Tywin off incredibly. But why would Aerys bring Jaime into his Kingsguard at the youngest age of anyone in the history of the kings guard? Maybe it was because Aerys thought Jaime was his son. There were probably many things that pissed Tywin off, but maybe taking his heir was the last straw. I don't really see it as a contradiction because Aerys' affair with Joanna, if it did happen, is something that Tywin can't prove. So he couldn't do anything about it at the time despite how much it pissed him off. He sure exacted his revenge when the Targaryens were all but beaten after the Trident though and he massacred any Targs in Kings Landing.

Aerys obviously had a thing for slighting Tywin. Why would he have a thing for slighting his Hand? Why would he accept Jaime as the youngest member ever of the Kingsguard? Maybe because he was sleeping with the hand's wife. Maybe he thought his Hand's children were actually his.

[mattah84]

Shade of the evening has NOTHING to do with Eurons eye. He just started drinking it when he captured the 3 warlocks and they had it with them. Euron has a blue eye and a black eye that he keeps under his eye patch. He is called Crows Eye because of his one black eye. There is also no actual proof the Euron has been to Valyria, only his word. He has a crew of mutes that can't deny it. There is also no actual proof that Euron had a dragon egg, except his word. You believe these things because Euron said it, but don't believe Tywin when he says Jaime and Tyrion are his kids.

Well Tywin also says Jaime and Tyrion aren't his kids.....

[mattah84]

Tommen has the same color hair as Tyrion. Lancel has sandy blonde hair. Not all Lannisters have the same golden blonde hair. Tyrion himself says his eyes are black and green. Many characters have commented on his mismatched black and green eyes.

Okay.....well Aegon the Conqueror had Gold Silver Hair, and there were alot of other Targaryens that just had Silver Hair. So not all Targaryens looked alike either.

Nobody in any family looks exactly alike. And it makes sense that Jaime, Cersei, and Tyrion would have Lannister attributes because their mother was for sure a Lannister. Look at Jon Snow......everybody thinks he is Rhaegar's kid.....and he looks nothing like a Targ.

[Mladen]

I agree that Jamie being taken into the Kingsguard was a move that pissed Tywin off incredibly. But why would Aerys bring Jaime into his Kingsguard at the youngest age of anyone in the history of the kings guard? Maybe it was because Aerys thought Jaime was his son. There were probably many things that pissed Tywin off, but maybe taking his heir was the last straw. I don't really see it as a contradiction because Aerys' affair with Joanna, if it did happen, is something that Tywin can't prove. So he couldn't do anything about it at the time despite how much it pissed him off. He sure exacted his revenge when the Targaryens were all but beaten after the Trident though and he massacred any Targs in Kings Landing.

Aerys obviously had a thing for slighting Tywin. Why would he have a thing for slighting his Hand? Why would he accept Jaime as the youngest member ever of the Kingsguard? Maybe because he was sleeping with the hand's wife. Maybe he thought his Hand's children were actually his.

To be fair, your theory is borderline fanfiction. And I appologize for that comment in advance.

Aerys hated Tywin. Why? Because people saw Tywin as absolute ruler of Wetsreos. Remember what happened to Illyn Payne? Aerys wanted to humiliate Tywin, to show him how only King can have all the power. First he denied him publically in front of other Lords and called him `a servant`, and then out of pure spite, he accepted Jaime into Kingsguard. And Jaime had found out that during Sack of KL when Aerys told him that he belonged to him, and not to his father. Aerys wasn`t feeling anything for Jaime, neither he believed hes his son. All he did was to teach Tywin some much needed humility.

And since it`s 4 am here, I suggest we continue this next time. Regards.

[Jon Mark Selmy]

Of course he is the fruit of Aerys's rape on Joanna. It is known. Cersei and Jaime aren't, though. Next?

[mattah84]

To be fair, your theory is borderline fanfiction. And I appologize for that comment in advance.

Aerys hated Tywin. Why? Because people saw Tywin as absolute ruler of Wetsreos. Remember what happened to Illyn Payne? Aerys wanted to humiliate Tywin, to show him how only King can have all the power. First he denied him publically in front of other Lords and called him `a servant`, and then out of pure spite, he accepted Jaime into Kingsguard. And Jaime had found out that during Sack of KL when Aerys told him that he belonged to him, and not to his father. Aerys wasn`t feeling anything for Jaime, neither he believed hes his son. All he did was to teach Tywin some much needed humility.

And since it`s 4 am here, I suggest we continue this next time. Regards.

Who saw Tywin as the ABSOLUTE Ruler of Westeros?

Please post that quote.....

[DavosSeaworthy]

I'm a secret Targ. Fact.

[Faint]

I think the same applies to Tyrion as does to his siblings: He is either a Targaryen or he is a red herring. By that, I mean that I think the author is intentionally writing the character in a way so as to elicit us thinking about that possibility, whether it is true or not. So while Tyrion may end up not being a Targaryen bastard, it certainly is not crackpot to think he is. There is a reason the author wanted us to know that Aerys was attracted to Joanna, that Tyrion dreams of dragons, that Cersei finds fire orgasmic, that Jaime had that vision of his mother, and so on. Either the author is dropping hints or he is purposely misleading us.

[mattah84]

Joanna was a friend of the then ruling Princess of Dorne, whom she knew from her time at court when they were companions to Princess Rhaella Targaryen.

Joanna Lannister was around Aerys for a time at court in Kings Landing. Aerys was also at Tywin and Joanna Lannister's wedding. She was good friends with both Rhaegar's wife Elia, and with Aerys' wife and sister Rhaella. So they definitely had the opportunity to spend time around one another, and GRRM definitely made sure we knew Aerys lusted after her.

Recollections about Joanna

Tywin seldom spoke of his wife but was much saddened by her death. He never remarried. According to his brother Gerion Lannister "the best part of Tywin died with her."^[1] Kevan later took over Joanna's role as Tywin's most trusted counselor.^[7]

According to Barristan Selmy, Aerys lusted for Joanna Lannister, something that caused further friction between the King and his Hand. At the wedding of Tywin to Joanna, Aerys drunkenly japed about how it was a pity the First Night tradition was banned and took certain liberties in the bedding ritual when the men at the feast had to disrobe the bride.^[8]

During the Siege of Riverrun Jaime dreams and sees a woman he barely recognizes. She asks if he will forget his father like he has forgotten her. She talks about the future Tywin wanted for his children: his son a knight and his daughter a queen and cries when Jaime replies that they have indeed become that

Maybe Barristan Selmy didn't go too much into detail about the LIBERTIES that Aerys took during Joanna Lannisters bedding ritual to Danaerys because he didn't want to let her see her father that way.......

[lady m]

There is a lot of speculation on why Tywin left his post as Hand of the King. Just because Jaime was in a Kingsguard seems a little weak. Just because he wouldn't marry Cersei to Rhaegar seems a little weak. But if Tywin suspected Aerys was banging his wife, that is not WEAK. That is a good reason to leave your post.

A good reason to leave your post six or seven years after the affair produced a child? That doesn't make sense, and doesn't fit Tywin.

Also, how is depriving Tywin of his heir weak? Saying it doesn't make it so. Tywin devoted his adult life to making sure the Lannister legacy was secure. He felt that his father had brought dishonor one their house through multiple reasons. He feels that the one thing you leave behind is your name and those that follow after you. Which makes Aerys depriving him of Jaime, his handsome & talented heir a very central swipe at Tywin. The fact that he resigns directly after it happens reinforces how important it is to Tywin. And it follows Tywin's character and central motivations very closely.

[Makes No Sansa]

If Tyrion was Joanna's child with Aerys, there's no way Tywin would kill him, for he'd still be a kinslayer.

[Buried Treasure]

Your missing the point. All those people found out once Joffrey and Tommen and Myrcella started to grow up. Joffrey was already like at least 9 or 10 before the time Stannis and Jon Arryn started looking into it. Because Joffrey is like 12 or 13 in AGOT. So yes, it was kept secret for a while. But once you have 3 kids that look nothing like the king robert baratheon, people start to take notice. I think if people took notice beforehand......jaime and cersei wouldnt of even had the chance to procreate tommen and myrcella. So yes people found out, but not before Jaime and Cersei had time to make three kids and have one them grow to be nine or ten years old.

Everybody knew Cersei and Jaime were close and that Jaime spent a lot of time in her rooms; nobody suspected all that alone time indicated an affair because they were brother and sister. If Joanna had spent that much time in Aerys' company people would have noticed and commented on it and there would have been rumours of an affair.

There are no such rumours, even Barristan's thoughts on Aerys taking 'liberties' at Joanna's bedding are given as an aside in the context of Barristan relating a story of Tywin being insulted by a jest. So in Barristan's mind the insult of the 'liberties' is equal or less than the insult of the joke.

Well he raised the girl since she was a baby. He also tells Tyrion he is his son when he goes to Kings Landing to be acting hand. He calls Jaime his son, and tells him he isn't his son later on. He also tells Tyrion he isn't his son later on to. Sounds like Tywin was conflicted on the issue to me......

Sounds to me that Tywin acknowledged his connection to his children when they pleased him and denied their connection when they angered him.

I’ve never thought for a second that Tywin being unable to prove Tyrion wasn’t his son was because he couldn’t get sufficient evidence because of course he can do that. Manufacture some witnesses who saw some friendless knight having his way with Lady Joanna, then torture the poor bastard into confessing and hey! Tyrion is disowned! Nobody in Casterly Rock was like to gainsay Tywin, and neither King Aerys nor King Robert were particularly attentive about seeing that their most powerful bannerman was behaving properly. Only Tywin could not do that, it would shame the name of beloved Joanna and make him no less a laughing stock.

So I don’t see Tywin wanting to ‘prove’ Tywin wasn’t his as having anything to do with him wanting to confirm a suspicion he privately held that Tyrion was Aerys’ child. I take it as Tywin talking entirely about how the rest of the realm perceive Tyrion, everybody sees him as a Lannister and Tywin really wishes they wouldn’t.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Look there is something special about Tyrion, and the bloodline from which he comes. He has the same eye color mixup that Sheira Seastar had, another Targaryen. And as you pointed out, the only other person we know besides these two that has it, is MAYBE Euron Crows Eye. According the Theon, Euron's eye patch is covering a Blue Eye thats is undeneath.

No. Euron has heterochromia iridum. Theon –as the writer wrote- said that he has one blue and one black eye. You tell me that you argue with the writer?

Can you tell me another House in Westeros besides the Lannisters and the Targaryens where it is a common thing for Family Members to marry each other?? I for one think that marrying within the family is something that is kind Targaryenish to do. I don't remember this being a common thing throughout the series. I remember hearing about the Targs doing it, the Lannisters, and thats it really. But maybe I am missing some familes.......am I?

Joanna belonged to a cadet branch not the main line so you are wrong here too. Not to mention that Cersei told Jaime that they can't be married because they are not Targs and Joanna split them up when she understood what they were doing. Was that a thing that a Targ mother would do?

All this everyone is a Targ is getting a bit annoying

:agree: so much annoying.

[mattah84]

No. Euron has heterochromia iridum. Theon –as the writer wrote- said that he has one blue and one black eye. You tell me that you argue with the writer?

Joanna belonged to a cadet branch not the main line so you are wrong here too. Not to mention that Cersei told Jaime that they can't be married because they are not Targs and Joanna split them up when she understood what they were doing. Was that a thing that a Targ mother would do?

:agree: so much annoying.

Euron has heterochromia iridum??......Where dd GRRM write that Euron, Tyrion, or Sheria Seastar has HETEROCHROMIA IRIDIUM? I get that it may be a real eye afflication in real life for humans that have two different eye colors, but where did GRRM write that in ASOIAF? It is a series with magic, and I don't remember hearing anything about HETEROCHROMIA IRIDUM when I was reading, so I thought it could of been for any reason, including some magic. Did GRRM legitimately say that is what Euron has?

Joanna split them up because she knew that is was something Tywin probably wouldn't like. She also knew that a BROTHER and a SISTER having relations with one another, is a TARG thing to do. So this was something that needed to be stopped, because Tywin wouldn't like it, and because it could serve as proof that Jaime and Cersei are Aerys' kids and not really Tywin's. Why else would a sexual attraction between a brother and a sister happen so naturally for Jaime and Cersei at such a young age? And why be so quick to cover up some incest when you married your own damn cousin (FIRST COUSIN AT THAT)?? It doesn't add up.

And why does Tywin consistently shit on Tyrion for whoring, when GRRM slipped it in for us viewers right before Tyrion killed Tywin, that Tywin liked whores himself? Tywin has reservations about Tyrion really being his son, so he found ungrounded reasons to hate on him. He said tyrion never takes things seriously, well he organized a great defense of Kings Landing and was responsible for the killing of thousands of Stannis' men. He says that Tyrion likes whores, well Tywin liked whores himself as we found out at the end!

The only real reason he has is because Joanna died giving birth to Tyrion. But that is something that is completely out of Tyrion's control. I guess Tywin really could of just hated Tyrion for being a Dwarf and for Joanna dying giving birth to him, but it seems really ungrounded as Tyrion can't conciously control any of these things. On the flip side, Tywin can't do anything about the fact that Tyrion might not be his because Joanna is dead and he can't prove it. That is why he says the Gods are teaching him humility....

Because in all seriousness.....what actual shame has Tyrion brought on House Lannister?

He didn't bang his Sister like his brother Jaime.

So what he whored, Tywin did to.

Tyrion tooks things seriously and was a big part of the reason Stannis never took Kings Landing.

The only responsibility Tywin gave him in Casterly Rock was to make sure the Shit flowed smoothly throughout the city and he did a pretty good job.....so again, where is this shame Tywin talks about Tyrion bringing on their house?

Maybe the shame is him being a dwarf, but I think the shame is that Tywin feels Tyrion isn't even his son, yet he cannot confront Joanna about it.

[Mladen]

Who saw Tywin as the ABSOLUTE Ruler of Westeros?

Please post that quote.....

Everyone in Westeros thought it. People were saying that Tywin rules the Seven Kingdoms. And while Aerys was sinking in paranoia, Tywin became the most powerful man in Kingdom. He wasn`t absolute ruler per se, but he was near that. Surely we can say that in time before Harrenhall tourney, Tywin was indeed the most powerful man in Westeros. I don`t know who said that Tywin ruled the Seven Kingdoms but Joanna ruled his heart. When I find the quote I`ll post it.

Joanna Lannister was around Aerys for a time at court in Kings Landing. Aerys was also at Tywin and Joanna Lannister's wedding. She was good friends with both Rhaegar's wife Elia, and with Aerys' wife and sister Rhaella. So they definitely had the opportunity to spend time around one another, and GRRM definitely made sure we knew Aerys lusted after her...

Joanna died when Elia was 13 or 14 I think, and it would be crazy to assume they were some close friends. Also we know that Joanna spend years in CR before her death. She witnessed the incest between Jaime and Cersei in CR. She was living on relation KL-CR. And have you read your quote about Aerys`s statement at Joanna`s wedding. By that moment we can easily say there were no intercourse between them. I doubt Aerys would rape her especially because his sanity was still intact at that time.