Stannis Ruined? (Book Spoilers)

[Penguin king]

It's not shown in the text at all though. What is shown is stannis saying numerous times that he doesn't want the throne but he is fighting for it because its his duty. It's not my fault people choose to ignore this. Also no if he really wanted the throne for selfish reasons it wouldn't diminish him or his ability to rule at all, but haters would just go on about that all day in every debate how he wants the throne so shouldn't get it(as if wanting the throne had any bearing on anything) so I am forced to defend the fact that he doesn't want it for bad or wrong reasons.

One of the show runners said renly would make a better king then stannis. That should tell you all you need to know.

Just because people disagree with you and your love for anything Stannis, doesn't make them "Haters"

People don't deny that Stannis claims not to want the throne, they just don't believe him when he says it. It's not his motives that lead me to believe he'd be a terrible king, but his lack of compassion, his awful people skills, his strict ideas about law and justice, his belief that men should bend the knee just because he says so, His willingness to overthrow the religion of westeros while never really beliving in the Red god.... It's a long list.

Renly might not be a great choice for king, but I believe he would have made a far better king than Stannis. He was smart, charismatic and had the support of the people. He was far more flexible and didn't expect people to Kneel because of some nebuous "right". He had his flaws sure. He was arrogant and naive, and far too enamoured with pageantry, but he was young, and given time he'd probably have matured somewhat.

[David Selig]

Renly doesn't give a crap about his people. Everything he does is entirely self motivated.

But that's not the case with the Show Renly, you know, the one the showrunners were actually talking about.

[Penguin king]

No you misunderstand me. They should not be changing characters based on how they view them. They should be sticking to the books as close as possible when it comes to the characters personalities.

I'm not sure that scene changed him all that much. We never see him when he's alone with Mel, so it's possible that he's more up front with her than he is with other people. Of course if you believe all his talk of duty and birthrights then I guess it is a major change to his character... They probably should have left things more ambiguous.

[W.Kane]

In Dance, Mel says that her bed doesn't have much use now that Stannis is gone. And we know Mel doesn't sleep so what do you people think that means?

You have to be quite naive to actually think that Stannis who is completely estranged from his wife doesn't have a sexual relationship with Mel.

We say he wouldn't beg to get some. it is out of character for him , they did have sex to produce SB.

Stannis only had sex with his wife once or twice a year out of duty. he is not very passionate man, that is who he is ,

[Penguin king]

Renly doesn't give a crap about his people. Everything he does is entirely self motivated.

Renly's good at putting on a show and a fake face that is all.

You can't state that with any certainty. Brienne and Loras both thought he'd make a good ruler, and he had far more support than Stannis ever did. He wants to rule I agree, but we really don't know what his plans were once he'd taken the throne.

[jons nissa]

We say he wouldn't beg to get some. it is out of character for him , they did have sex to produce SB.

Stannis only had sex with his wife once or twice a year out of duty. he is not very passionate man, that is who he is ,

actually he's extremely passionate about his duty of sitting on the iron throne. extremely.

[Stannis Iron Baratheon]

I think that if in the scene he was just trying to get her to stay, make him a little desprate, but not this horny powerhungry idiot.

[The Monkey]

I think that one of the S2 'Inside the episode' clips had one of the D's say 'Stannis is a villain' or something to that effect.

And yes, I too hated what they did to him in this episode.

Aye, he said that, but when you watch his scenes in S2, they actually made him a lot more likeable than he was in ACoK. For example, he was mad at the nobles for mocking Davos, and he expressed remorse at his soldiers' fate at the Blackwater. None if this is in the novel, where he was more or less portrayed as a stone-hearted bastard.

[Enutie]

He seems like a flat-out villain...do any non book readers even like him?

Yeah I like him.

I am hoping he is AA, And that he will save the world

But yeah, I didnt really like how they showed him here in this episode :/

EDIT: aaah, you meant non-book readers, sorry!

[W.Kane]

actually he's extremely passionate about his duty of sitting on the iron throne. extremely.

we both know , you understood what I meant.

anyway , the writers really fucked up , they ruined one of the most complex and interesting characters of ASOIAF .

RIP , game of thrones .

[Gannicus]

But that's not the case with the Show Renly, you know, the one the showrunners were actually talking about.

Isn't it though? Renly came of as a wus playing at war. He still had no claim to the throne.

Even if we assume he only acted because he thought he would make a great king, he was still manipulated by his boyfriend.

Charm isn't enough, the guy simply didn't have the chops for the job.

You can't state that with any certainty. Brienne and Loras both thought he'd make a good ruler, and he had far more support than Stannis ever did. He wants to rule I agree, but we really don't know what his plans were once he'd taken the throne.

Brienne and Loras both have a hard on for him though. We now he's playing games when important things are happening. He fails to act, he fails to follow any code of succession, he's never won a single battle, and in the show he is manipulated into action by Loras. I can't say for certain but it doesn't look good.

[Penguin king]

we both know , you understood what I meant.

anyway , the writers really fucked up , they ruined one of the most complex and interesting characters of ASOIAF .

RIP , game of thrones .

I felt like that last season with Jon Snow. They removed all the cool parts of his ACOK storyline and made him look like an idiot. I'm still watching though. The show is more like an alternative universe or something in my eyes.

[StarkDragon]

we both know , you understood what I meant.

anyway , the writers really fucked up , they ruined one of the most complex and interesting characters of ASOIAF .

One? How about the LF simplification last episode with Sansa? IMO, that was even worse than this.

Hell, one could even say the staff are truly bias when it comes to him, especially with Tyrion's "is there a village idiot who trusts LF?"

I remember reading a Tyrion POV of him being disturbed of LF...

RIP , game of thrones .

Hmm, not yet. A few more assassinations to start that grave.

Edit

I felt like that last season with Jon Snow. They removed all the cool parts of his ACOK storyline and made him look like an idiot. I'm still watching though. The show is more like an alternative universe or something in my eyes.

Yeah, I'm not liking Beyond the Wall at all any more. Especially in S3.

In positive news, the Lannister scenes are all epic imo.

[Brother Without Banners]

Stannis is my favorite character, much to the surprise of most people I've met who have read all of the books, but I'll admit that the show is portraying him in a bad light this season.

I could tolerate last seasons changes, but I do think they're overdoing this portrayal of the relationship between him and Mel. I never had the impression in the books that he was in love with her or obsessed with her or anything, just that he's attracted to her, and uses her as a tool for his early success with the two shadows. He's not a true believer in the fires or in R'hllor at all, and he's simply obsessed with becoming King because the Iron Throne is, in his view, his by right, and they didn't change that part of Stannis, but TV Stannis does seem to be enamored by Mel much more than Book Stannis ever was.

Obviously D&D have no love for Stannis, but they could just be setting up a triumphant rise when they get to his rescue at the Wall. We shall see.

[ckongo]

I never bought this actor as Stannis, and even less so now.

[HopeForSpring]

I think Stannis isn't Asexual, hey just isn't that into Selyse. And Melissande is HOT and strong and driven, just like him.

They both are driven by a lust for "duty" they are both still confused as to what that really means.

I'm not saying he is a true beleive in the books, he's not, but we don't know what he's like alone with her.

Stannis is rigid and legalistic and therefore prone to fractures. He didn't talk to anyone but Mel post blackwater in the books - if that is not damage what is? GRRM doesn't seem to hold up rigidity as a good thing. Stannis isn't acting for the good of the small folk of the realm. He is acting out of a white-knuckled of duty that conveniently places him at the center of the universe. I think that is the vibe that D&D are brining to the fore.

They are simplifying everyone, not just Stannis. They have to.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

Stannis is a broken dude after Blackwater, I geuss when Davos reads the letter to him is when he will change back.

[E-Ro]

No. They do whatever they want with them to make what they think will make for a better adaptation. This is the seriously such a naivecomment that I don't think you actually know anything about adaptation.Just read the books if this is your serious perspective.

Utter nonsense. Changing a characters PERSONALITY does not make for a better adaptation, changing some things that happen is fine(like tallisa) but changing a character based on your own biases is not the way to make anything better, it just lessens the end product by making it less complex.

[Oakenfist]

I think Stannis isn't Asexual, hey just isn't that into Selyse. And Melissande is HOT and strong and driven, just like him.

They both are driven by a lust for "duty" they are both still confused as to what that really means.

I'm not saying he is a true beleive in the books, he's not, but we don't know what he's like alone with her.

Stannis is rigid and legalistic and therefore prone to fractures. He didn't talk to anyone but Mel post blackwater in the books - if that is not damage what is? GRRM doesn't seem to hold up rigidity as a good thing. Stannis isn't acting for the good of the small folk of the realm. He is acting out of a white-knuckled of duty that conveniently places him at the center of the universe. I think that is the vibe that D&D are brining to the fore.

They are simplifying everyone, not just Stannis. They have to.

Try explaining this to the whiners who apparently think that the Stannis post-Wall is the same as Stannis post-Blackwater. It takes Davos to remind him of his duty and before that I honestly didn't like Stannis at all.

The only reason why he has some show watcher fans now is because they showed Stannis leading the vanguard and being all bad ass, which didn't happen in the book version of Blackwater.

[Penguin king]

Brienne and Loras both have a hard on for him though. We now he's playing games when important things are happening. He fails to act, he fails to follow any code of succession, he's never won a single battle, and in the show he is manipulated into action by Loras. I can't say for certain but it doesn't look good.

And Stannis's biggest supporters are his wife, the priestess he's screwing and a guy with a serious man crush on him. and Davos is always questioning Stannis's decisions. Renly probably shouldn't have been so flippant about the war, but he was pretty certain he was going to win. without Mel's Shadow baby he probably would have. Stannis is manipluated far more by Mel than Loras ever was by Renly.

I'm not saying Renly would have made a perfect king, but I honestly believe he had more going for him than Stannis, Aerys, Robert and Joffrey.