Azor Ahoy! Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 It's taken as pretty much gospel that the 'mummer's dragon' Quaithe refers to in her prophecy to Dany in ADWD is Aegon, and he is called that because he's a 'fake' dragon, i.e. a Blackfyre or some random kid from Lys or Myr, not the son of Prince Rhaegar and Princess Elia of Dorne.What if 'Mummer's Dragon' does not necessarily mean a fake dragon, but just a false enemy, provided to give someone something to fight (Dany telling Jorah after the HotU that a mummer's dragon is a dragon banner on a cloth pole used in mummer shows to give the hero something to fight)?So in this case, my theory is that Aegon will be presented as an enemy to Dany, by JonCon and the GC after Dany, landing in Westeros, spurns their offer to marry Aegon, but in fact she needs him to break the power of the Tyrell-Lannisters forever.Alternately, it could be a reference to anyone who resists Dany, because the true enemy is the Others, and they should be banding together to fight them.What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Stark Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Wasn't Varys literally a mummer or traveled with them when he was a kid in the Free Cities? So, even if Aegon really is Rhaegar's Aegon, he was snuck out of Westeros by Varys and his life since has been controlled by Varys.My point is Aegon could be the Mummer's True Dragon just as easily as he could be the Mummer's Fascicle Dragon. The reason we never heard anything about him until book five is because who wants to read about some POV character for four books who is doing nothing but floating around on a boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu1987 Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 ^Yes, mummer's dragon = Varys' dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I still think he's fake, but the other possible meaning is Vary's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 I hope Aegon is real and that Varys is the mummer in the propechy making Aegon his dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSnow House Stark Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 If I am not mistaken Tyrion believes he is real. If he believes it then so do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 If I am not mistaken Tyrion believes he is real. If he believes it then so do I.You are mistaken. Tyrion is skeptical of the claim, but has no way to assess the truth either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 Also, for Tyrion, the important question would not be if he's real or not, but whether people believe he's real. He knows where power lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Storm King Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 mummer is varys and aegon is real. perf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raegal_targaryen Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 actually u know the wars of roses, from england history they where 2 supposed fake princes who where killed check princes in the tower......the queen said they where real not even on her death bed did she change her mind but the king at the time got them portraited as fakes and it was 2 princes actually so u have tower of joy kid and we have aegon........and anyone on the throne at the time will have them announced as fakes and enemy of the realm and i believe daenerys is queen that will set it straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alester Florent Posted April 15, 2013 Share Posted April 15, 2013 actually u know the wars of roses, from england history they where 2 supposed fake princes who where killed check princes in the tower......the queen said they where real not even on her death bed did she change her mind but the king at the time got them portraited as fakes and it was 2 princes actually so u have tower of joy kid and we have aegon........and anyone on the throne at the time will have them announced as fakes and enemy of the realm and i believe daenerys is queen that will set it straight.Good grief, what did the comma ever do to you?!There were a few claims put forward by people claiming to be one of the Princes in the Tower: the two biggest and best-known were Lambert Simnel and Perkin Warbeck, several years apart. Lambert was widely acknowledged to be a fake (although there are some murky circumstances around it) but Perkin was widely accepted as the real deal, albeit possibly more in hope than judgement. Eventually the king had him put to death as a pretender.However, I'm not sure what we can take from it, other than that there were parallels to Aegon's situation in real life, and we don't know whether or not they were true. It's worth pointing out that Henry VII was much more secure on the throne than Tommen is. If Aegon's a Blackfyre, there's a pretty cogent parallel with Henry VII himself, too. Either way, it doesn't tell us much about whether or not he's real.I also tend to subscribe to the point of view of the OP - that while he is "the mummer's dragon", that has a variety of meanings and the obvious assumption that it means he's fake is one of those red herrings that people keep falling for when they try to act on prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhailorian Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I also tend to subscribe to the point of view of the OP - that while he is "the mummer's dragon", that has a variety of meanings and the obvious assumption that it means he's fake is one of those red herrings that people keep falling for when they try to act on prophecy.This...easiest post I ever made. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anook of the North Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Couldn't Aegon also be seen as 'dark flame' then?? If he is indeed, as some have predicted, a Blackfyre and not a Targaryan? Which would leave the 'mummer's dragon' to be........??? Varys? Jon?? STANNIS??? If the interpretation of the mummer's dragon is taken to mean "something to fight" stannis would make a good md. And now I think about it, a Lannister would make a fine mummer's dragon, as they are currently pretending to be dragons (the ruling family) and are usually up for a fight :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 If I am not mistaken Tyrion believes he is real. If he believes it then so do I.Tyrion's actually pretty skeptical about him before he accepts that it could be him. He's also not infallible by any means. Like, taking anything he (or anyone else) says as a given just because he said it is a pretty big error.Couldn't Aegon also be seen as 'dark flame' then?? If he is indeed, as some have predicted, a Blackfyre and not a Targaryan? Which would leave the 'mummer's dragon' to be........??? Varys? Jon?? STANNIS??? If the interpretation of the mummer's dragon is taken to mean "something to fight" stannis would make a good md. And now I think about it, a Lannister would make a fine mummer's dragon, as they are currently pretending to be dragons (the ruling family) and are usually up for a fight :)The dark flame is Moqorro. Book it.I read "mummer's dragon" to have multiple meanings. He's a mummer's dragon in that he's fake (fake as in, not Aegon; I think he's still a Blackfyre). He's a mummer's dragon in that he's Varys's dragon. And, yes, I suppose, he can also be a mummer's dragon in that Dany might foolishly expend energy in fighting him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 I read "mummer's dragon" to have multiple meanings. He's a mummer's dragon in that he's fake (fake as in, not Aegon; I think he's still a Blackfyre). He's a mummer's dragon in that he's Varys's dragon. And, yes, I suppose, he can also be a mummer's dragon in that Dany might foolishly expend energy in fighting him.He is mummer`s dragon because Tyrion maipulated him into going to Westeros and therefore sparked what is going to become Dance of Dragons. So, here mummer can be also Tyrion, for he had done what mummer`s do, give a dragon to hero so he could fight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anook of the North Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 The dark flame is Moqorro. Book it.I realise that's what they call him, I've "booked it" half a hundred times, but with the fickle nature of prophesy who can say until the die is cast?? If we are to take these groupings as characters who will arrive before Dany in pairs, then of course Moqorro is the obvious choice. Obviously Quaithe didn't announce them in chronological order, or the sun's son would have come directly after the pale mare, but are the groupings significant or arbitrary? If they were supposed to come in pairs, then surely we would have seen evidence of the mummer's dragon by now as the sun's son has come and burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anook of the North Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 drat, wasn't done. If the mummer's dragon is Aegon, he hasn't appeared before dany to make a petition (like Quentyn) infact, he's gone in the opposite direction. If we take 'lion and griffin' to mean Tyrion and jon con, they're no longer together, or even on the same continent, so why must we assume that kraken and dark flame mean Victarion and Moqorro NECESSARILY. It seems obvious, yes, and that is just the problem because we are dealing with prophecy. I often wonder if Quaithe appears at the start of WoW, if she'll say "sorry about that last heads-up, things have changed because the pawns simply refuse to play out the parts we had in mind for them" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabronius Maximus Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 It's also possible (although far-fetched) that mummer's dragon is Quentyn, because he came to Dany proclaiming he had dragon blood and could tame a dragon. Obviously he couldn't. In that case Aegon (assuming he's legit) would be the sun's son because he'd be 50% Martell from his mom's side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cade Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 Whether or not mummer = fake, another reason I think he's fake is because he's one of the lies Dany has to slay, just like Stannis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Impaler Posted April 24, 2013 Share Posted April 24, 2013 What do you think?Could be true, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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