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The Scabbard Of the Morning

Varys and Ros/QoT [Book Spoilers]

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I have a problem with this plot line. Because how can it be that presumably in Season 4 and beyond, that nobody knows where Sansa Stark is, (including Varys), if Varys and QoT knows that LF plotted to absond with her now. Wouldn't the Vale be the FIRST PLACE they would look when she disappears knowing LF's intentions.

The reason nobody suspected LF is because he never contacted her directly and nobody had any clue that he was interested in her.

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Yes and yes. I hate the argument that its never explicitly stated that Varys or the Tyrells didnt know. It was heavily insinuated and not everything has to be explicity stated in the text.

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Well, Varys may have his own reasons to avoid looking for Sansa. As for the QoT, we shall see. Maybe they do make a fake Sansa, so nobody suspects she's at the Vale? Maybe they pass her for dead?

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I just have to cross my fingers and hope the show explains it.

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This is the biggest plot issue the show has. With all the things that have been chagned this makes the least sense to me and could have the largest implications so far. No one should even have a clue where Sansa is. If people even suspected LF then the Vale would have been searched and it wasn't.

Tormund Giantsbane climbing the Wall with Jon is the other. He is key to Jon's story in other ways after the initial attack. If Tormund is in the party south of the wall then he would most likely be killed during the battle. Unless he finds a way to sneak back north during the chaos. If they don't do that they will have to change his/Jon's story more.

The more I think about it, the more I think there won't be 2 attacks on the Wall like the books. It sounds like they are combining the battles. "Send your eagle over the wall each night. I will light a fire like the North's never seen." This sounds like one big battle but who knows...that's season 4 anyway.

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Well, Varys may have his own reasons to avoid looking for Sansa. As for the QoT, we shall see. Maybe they do make a fake Sansa, so nobody suspects she's at the Vale? Maybe they pass her for dead?

Who's they? A fake Sansa would have to go the Ned route immediately, that's mighty dangerous when there is a real Sansa out there.

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We don't know how this is going to play out. Sansa still has to marry Tyrion, etc. For all we know, Varys will assume LF's plot has failed and then Sansa disappears later on. Politically, Sansa's life is not worth much once Arya shows up alive anyways.

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By they I mean the show screenwriters. A fake Sansa instead of a fake Arya and not accused of the murder of Joffrey provides an alibi for none going straight to the Vale to question LF.

Or LF could produce a fake Alayne Stone to show to whoever the Iron Throne sends? It would be a close call, though. Or he just gets whoever is sent to investigate into his payroll - but that's also dangerous.

In any case, this are the things which, IMHO, prevent us book readers from being too spoiled. We know the general direction the plot is going, but there are still things creating us intrigue.

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I was honestly kind of surprised that he got away with it in the books, so I'm not monumentally concerned about this new development..

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I really hate how they've handled Sansa/LF storyline. They've made LF a full on imbecile and everyone knows his plans? Ugh.

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This seems like an area that xould blow up.

As of now it seems like a plotline where they felt theycould get good scenes out of, but when you add it up it doesnt work

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Book Littlefinger steals Sansa away, consolidates his position, and then starts spreading the rumor that she's with him in the Vale. His plan doesn't rely on her secret being kept perfectly or forever. I would guess that Varys always had a pretty good of where she was anyway, but she wasn't a priority to the Kings Landing folks at that point.

They've simplified the subtle plotting that the books are full of, but I think it is forgivable. Complex, subtle plots require a lot of time, and we have a lot of people carrying out their plots. I think is better to keep the plotting, though in a simplified version across a bunch of characters, than to devote that time to giving one or two characters amazing trickiness.

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I don't see why they would care that Sansa disappeared because Joffrey will be dead, and the Tyrells' will care more about making sure that they are not implicated. Having Sansa as the fall guy will work to their advantage.

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Sansa's escape is convenient for scapegoating. But the problem is that Littlefinger is going to disappear and suddenly reappear in the Vale with a daughter at some point after Sansa's escape. If all of the keyplayers already KNOW the link between Littlefinger and Sansa.. None of the later events in the book would be allowed to happen. How they're going to spin this, I have no idea.

Maybe they won't have to explain it really, because Varys will be gone by the time this takes place and Cersei might not ever find out about the LF/Sansa plot. We never find out if the Queen of Thorns knows anyways since she is absent as well.. But it isn't really conceivable that Littlefinger would be allowed to get away with that lie if they know his 'daughter' is Sansa already.. Bleh..

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But even in the books, does anyone really believe that Varys didn't know Littlefinger had an interest in Sansa? That the possibility crossed his mind? Varys plays his own game, and bringing Sansa back to KL doesn't seem to have been high on his list of priorities. And then he himself left town not too long after - and we don't know where he went or what he's doing...

QoT, okay, that's new. Presumably.But what would she stand to gain by bringing Sansa back? Blame has already been firmly placed on Tyrion, so there's no need for another scapegoat. Tyrion is still alive, which means Sansa is still married, so there's no chance of marrying her off to Willas Loras. Maybe she thinks it's better to leave things as they are, having a fairly good sense of where Sansa is, than to tell the Lannisters and risk LF hiding her away where she won't so easily be found if there's need of her.

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I really hate how they've handled Sansa/LF storyline. They've made LF a full on imbecile and everyone knows his plans? Ugh.

To be fair, the only people that know are two of the greatest schemers in the realm, and someone who was a witness. He's still an imbecile ofc.

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I always got the feeling that Varys and Littlefinger knew pretty much everything that was going on, but that both of them were very PICKY about what they actually interfered with. Because if they started to act upon everything going on around them, other people would notice them and take them out. I always felt that I was only ever getting the tips of the iceburgs with those two in the books. And both of them recognise what each other is doing, and are keeping an especially close eye on each other as dangerous schemers. So I don't mind that the Show has made it overt that Varys is particularly interested in Littlefinger and is making inroads into knowing what Littlefinger is up to. I'm not bothered that the show is deviating so much. Season 2 reassured me that all the show deviations would still get around to the book pivotal plot points, even if it's via a different route.

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Littlefinger will come to Sansa in an episode soon and tell her that they are ready to leave to go to the Vale. At which point Sansa will reject him because she is happy enough to marry Loras and go to Highgarden. At which point Littlefinger will (probably off screen) tell Tywin and Tywin will arrange the marriage to Tyrion. Littlefinger then arranges Joffrey's death (possibly by telling a lie to Joffrey about Margaery, getting him to abuse her) and either implicates Sansa in it or fakes her death. Maybe Littlefinger's "fake" solution will be a fake dead body for Sansa. Could be Ros, even.

There's no reason to worry. It'll all work out well enough as it did in the books.

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Doesn't Varys disappear at the same time as Sansa? Or roughly at least.

Also, why would the QoT help the Lannisters find Sansa?

It's all good in my head just now. Who knows though?

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Also, why would the QoT help the Lannisters find Sansa?

Agreed. The QoT has no reason to help the Lannisters and Varys has his own plans. He does not need to tell Cersei. When you play the game keep attention on when to play a card and when not, it may be better to wait for a better moment.

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