Stannis and Cannibalism

[A bowl of brown]

I've been rereading CoK and there's a bit where Renly was talking to his generals and says that Maester Cressen stopped Stannis from hurling a couple of traitors with catapults to Mace Tyrell's army during the siege of Storm's End because they might need to eat them.

Obviously Stannis was at least considering this before Davos smuggled his onions as he didn't hurl them. When you compare this or to him sentancing the men to death in ADWD for eating one of their dead companions in similar circumstances it seems he has had a change of heart with regards to the cannibalism/starvation debate.

Do we think this is a result of Mel's influence or what?

[The Drunkard]

Different situations. In Storm's End, the cannibalism would've been overseen by Stannis, and only done once food was completely gone. In the North, he has random soldiers possibly killing each other in order to eat each other, when by all accounts there is still some level of food remaining. Even if the soldiers weren't killing each other, letting it go unpunished sends a clear message to others that are feeling a tad peckish.

I think that if things got progressively worse in the North, Stannis would eventually turn to eating the dead. But it would be on his terms, with guidelines, enforcers and punishments for acting out of turn.

[E-Ro]

Well during the rebellion he was 17. People are allowed to change their minds on things, especially when they pass their teen years.

As well, marching in the north requires a ton of discipline and order in the men. If men are allowed to eat the dead how long before they are killing each other to eat? The situations at se and the north are different.

[David Selig]

Stannis is a massive hypocrite, nothing new here.

[SeanF]

The circumstances are different. During the march to Winterfell, discipline would probably break down completely if cannibalism went unpunished. Soliders would be afraid that their bodies wouldl be eaten by their comrades, or even that they'd be murdered for food.

Eating convicted traitors at Storms End, with the permission of the garrison commander, won't endanger discipline in that way.

[Groat]

Stannis is a massive hypocrite, nothing new here.

I didn't want to be the first, but thank you.

[E-Ro]

Stannis is a massive hypocrite, nothing new here.

Or you could try and simplify it to this. But for those of us that prefer to look deeper into things a gather a more nuanced view, you can look at the other posts in this thread.

[Tony Soprano]

Mel doesn't have any influence over Stannis. Not really. He's the one that's influencing her, not the other way around. She believes he's R'hllor's chosen, and would do anything for him. He doesn't believe in her prophecies, nor does he believe in the Red God. He's just using her to appease the Queen's Men.

Also, the circumstances at Storm's End were different from those at Winterfell. The people at Storm's End were deserters, who were convicted to death, and they'd be executed one way or the other. The cannibals at Winterfell feasted on the bodies of their fellow soldiers. If Stannis allowed that to go unpunished, it would be a terrible blow to the morale of his men and it may even lead to infighting just so they could eat the corpses of the dead.

[A bowl of brown]

Well during the rebellion he was 17. People are allowed to change their minds on things, especially when they pass their teen years.

As well, marching in the north requires a ton of discipline and order in the men. If men are allowed to eat the dead how long before they are killing each other to eat? The situations at se and the north are different.

Sure, I get that people can change there mind especially over years. I guess i'm asking if thats all it is or whether its an even worse thing to do in the views of the Red God.

I'm not sure the situations are that different, I know there's limited food for the officers but the common men seem pretty starved. I don't think the men murdered anyone as so many people are dying from the cold. I'm not sure theres that much distinction between eating traitors to anyone else, and once that lines crossed how long before people started killing each other in Storm's End for food?

I am quite a fan of Stannis and don't really go for the he's a massive hypocrite argument. Most of the characters are hypocrites to some degree and I don't see Stannis as any worse than most.

[Manderlay]

Two very different situations, at SE they would have died, in the north the situation is still not that desperate and cannibalism must be avoided until there is no choice left other than that.

[Lord Lymond Lychester]

Stannis is a massive hypocrite, nothing new here.

agreed

I'm really awaiting him to begin the cannibalism, It just seems the only possible course given his nature

[Maegor the Cuddly]

Eh, things can change over the years. He thinks he's in a less desperate situation now, because he is not locked up in a castle, with an enormous army sitting on the outside, and starvation looming over him. He thinks he's in a much better position, he's marching his army to begin the first step to retaking his throne after the Failure on the Blackwater. Hence, less desperate, in his mind.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

People were killing each other to eat and if he didn't stop it he would have no army at all

in Storm's End siege he saved some bodies there to emergency, in case they ran out of food, they ate rats if I'm not mistaken

[David Selig]

Eh, things can change over the years. He thinks he's in a less desperate situation now, because he is not locked up in a castle, with an enormous army sitting on the outside, and starvation looming over him. He thinks he's in a much better position, he's marching his army to begin the first step to retaking his throne after the Failure on the Blackwater. Hence, less desperate, in his mind.

Stannis could always just surrender Storm's End. On the other hand, in the blizzard the situation seemed worse in terms of chance for survival.

[Nictarion]

Stannis is a massive hypocrite, nothing new here.

Pretty much.