[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[teemo]

Yeah, I thought that entire consversation between QOT and Tywin was kind of crazy from every perspective you can think of...out of character for both, kind of weird extremes of making Tywin a homophobe and QOT like oh aren't all boys gay at the other end of the spectrum and then continuity issues of the kingsguard and why Tywin would be making threats when the Tyrells are feeding King's Landing and have a standing army in King's Landing...

The wall is so boring I don't even care, Kit Harrington looks like he's acting while zoned out on oxycontin.

:lol:

[teemo]

I pointed out last week that a serious issue is Jon Snow not having anyone to talk to truthfully, because virtually every main protagonist on a television show has some kind of outlet so we know what they're thinking - a friend, family member, themselves, a dead person, and Jon Snow has no one. Now it looks like Ygritte is in on it so he can talk to her, but it doesn't really make any sense, not to mention he hasn't confided anything to her.

That's most likely the reason they made Shae Sansa's BFF - so she has someone to share her emotions with. But it's really underutilized....they talk like they're best friends when we see them together but there's no reason behind it and Sansa honestly doesn't share much...why does Shae care about Sansa so much that she'll threaten the lives of other handmaidens for her and say that she'll "take care" of LF if he messes with her? It seems like a forced close friendship out of nowhere.

[SerMixalot]

Having watched the inside the episode about this episode, it is just another example of D&D just not getting certain characters. Ygritte KNOWS jon is still a crow?!?! simply not logical. She witnessed him kill QH, she slept with him. She would have no doubts about Jon at this point. Ignoring thefact that Jon was still a Crow would be incredibly stupid for a wilding. yes they are independant people, but she is placing her life, making herself the woman of someone who she inherently must distrust, nor has Jon given her any reason to trust him thusly (ie outside of truly believing he turned his cloak). what a stupid perception of the relationship. It makes Ygritte into some obsessive stalker type. WEIRD

This season, for Jon's arc would have improved 10000% if they had a couple of scenes of J and Y flirting before they slept together. ESTABLISH a relationship, show Y truly believing in Jon's turning.

ahhhh why bother.

[ckongo]

my point is people would be less pissed off if they weren't constantly comparing every little thing to what happened in the books. not trolling, honestly trying to help people enjoy the show a bit more. a kind of entertainment good samaritan if you will.

We are not looking for conversion here. Shoo! Let us bitch in peace. :P

yes! season 1 was a masterpiece, why? because they mostly stuck to the source material, except for when budget and time constraints prevented them from doing so. Now, they love the source material so much (they keep reminding us of that) yet they have made a lot of stupid/cliche/time wasting plot changes. They blame them on the budget, or time constraints, but in season 1, their time and budget were more constrained than ever, yet they managed to make a quality show, and stick to the source material mostly. Now that they are being "creative", the quality of the show has declined substantially.

:agree:

[ckongo]

I pointed out last week that a serious issue is Jon Snow not having anyone to talk to truthfully, because virtually every main protagonist on a television show has some kind of outlet so we know what they're thinking - a friend, family member, themselves, a dead person, and Jon Snow has no one. Now it looks like Ygritte is in on it so he can talk to her, but it doesn't really make any sense, not to mention he hasn't confided anything to her.

Yup. An idea. They could have made a scene (since that's almost as natural to D+D as breathing) where Jon finds himself alone in the snow briefly and decides to say a prayer to the old gods, where he states some of his internal monologue from ASOS regarding the path he is on. That way we could know what he's thinking.

[Ser Fatso]

My biggest issues are the little thing that only a change in dialoug would be needed to protray the books more accurately. Like Loras being the heir to Highgarden, and tywin trying to use KingsGaurd as a threat. Part of the original deal was he would join the KG. does this mean that Wilas Tyrell is not going to have a role in the books?

I am starting to dislike the series, not saying i wont watch it but some things just stupid! Also whats the deal with Gendry and Mel, is Gendry meant to be the new Edric Storm? and davos saves him.

To me you only have to change a couple of lines and it becomes more like the books.

I did like Olenna's sword swollowing comment and asking Tywin if he ever did that, like it is so common. Also the lords kiss

[SerMixalot]

it just occurred to me that the T-O scene was completely pointless, Tywin has already stopped the Tyrells plans by marrying Tyrion to Sansa. He even stated last week that it could be done without a public problem with the Tyrells. This week he essentialy throws an insult in the Tyrell's face for the less important Cersei marriage, which could easily be suited by some other match for Cersei. One without the potential insult to the Tyrells.

[Oakenfist]

D&D royally screwed up the Tyrells who are now near extinction in the series. So Loras is the heir and if made KG then Marge is heir? This is what Tywin tells Olenna. What about Willas and Garlan? GRRM made three Tyrell brothers in the first place so he could kill off one or two of them (Loras and Garlan most likely) yet the Tyrells wouldn't be extinct as a house. Basically they're not planning ahead.

[A Stark in Salem]

One thing I really hated was how non challant the Sam and Gilly trip has shaped up to be! In the books it's non-stop terror; white walkers right on their heels. Dead guys and animals everywhere. Really great horror! And we get... um, nothing.

The Theon stuff has been good, though I wish The Bastard of Bolton was a bit more slimey.

Rob's scenes seemed true in tone and content to the books, as have the Jamie scenes.

Yeah- weird so few will make it over the Wall. Not much of a raiding party eh?

[Oakenfist]

The raiding party consists of 200 people in the books (realistic)

In the show its 16 people (unrealistic)

And they all die anyway except 4 characters that have been introduced (Orell, Tormund, Jon, and Ygrette). Just stupid and predictable.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I sometimes think that D&D don't fully get the politics of the situation. Karstark being half the army is one example. Robb's weird line about "Harrenhall isn't in the North therefore I don't give a shit" is another. He is King of the Riverlands, yet openly disregards them as unimportant in front of his Tully family members? And Tywin's threat of drafting Loras into the Kingsguard...weird

This episode just really made me mad, especially after the last couple. The Theon/Ramsay stuff was the only good part.

[ladyinblack]

Have many of the same gripes expressed here . Very disappointed they haven't done any better with their increased budget . Started this whole journey with the excellent Season 1 & quickly became a diehard book fanatic/many rereads..

The main issue besides the wretched changes in storylines - where is the supporting cast? Where are Robbs colorful bannermen?who were always at his side. & Greywind? Now, I envision them -Robb, Mom., Edmure, Talisa arriving at the Twins & a Frey servant calling out for a table for 4.sheesh

Where are the wildings? All the diverse peoples..Where are the KL inhabitants-yes I remember Cersei keeps the smallfolk away but the servants,knights etc. We saw that in Season1

well---excuse me while I look in the flames :devil:

[Lucifer Lightbringer]

I sometimes think that D&D don't fully get the politics of the situation. Karstark being half the army is one example. Robb's weird line about "Harrenhall isn't in the North therefore I don't give a shit" is another. He is King of the Riverlands, yet openly disregards them as unimportant in front of his Tully family members? And Tywin's threat of drafting Loras into the Kingsguard...weird

This episode just really made me mad, especially after the last couple. The Theon/Ramsay stuff was the only good part.

I agree. At this point, I have to wonder whether they are just not that bright (at least in a literary sense) or they think the audience is mainly composed of dunces. Obviously, the fact alone that they have made this milestone in their careers and created a wildly successful TV show would seem to imply that they have some level of intelligence. On the other hand, they simply don't seem to understand or care about how many details both minor and important affect the internal logic of the narrative. When I say narrative, I'm not just talking about the plot of ASoIaF, but of their own show.

Perhaps they don't even fundamentally understand the source material. Or they just don't care that much about preserving the logic of the story through the motivations of its characters and think that simply hitting on major events will suffice, whether or not it really makes sense in the end. If the latter is true, they are severely limiting the potential of the show and making it kind of an intellectual insult to non-readers.

Having a flippant attitude about characterization and narrative logic doesn't really lead to a higher quality of television, and it is kind of antithetical to the spirit of both the books and the show; the idea that it isn't the dragons or magical swords, but the detailed and complex characters that makes ASoIaF so much fun.

There is nothing wrong with condensing certain plot lines or consolidating characters. However, they have shown that they simply don't have faith in the audience to understand the story as it is presented, and as such, they often revert to sloppy broad strokes and trite cliches even where they are unnecessary and detrimental. Some of the changes they have made just can't be justified from a position of storytelling. The only reason they seem to exist is because either B&W are a bit dull, or they sincerely believe that the audience is.

[Birdsong65]

I sometimes think that D&D don't fully get the politics of the situation. Karstark being half the army is one example. Robb's weird line about "Harrenhall isn't in the North therefore I don't give a shit" is another. He is King of the Riverlands, yet openly disregards them as unimportant in front of his Tully family members? And Tywin's threat of drafting Loras into the Kingsguard...weird

This episode just really made me mad, especially after the last couple. The Theon/Ramsay stuff was the only good part.

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but wasn't Lady Whent's (?) seat at Harrenhal....or was that Lady Hornwood? And if it is a Whent, isn't that the maternal line on Catelyn's mother's side? And didn't they all answer to Winterfell, and Lord Stark? I don't understand how it isn't part of the Northern Realm.

[Ramsay Gimp]

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but wasn't Lady Whent's (?) seat at Harrenhal....or was that Lady Hornwood? And if it is a Whent, isn't that the maternal line on Catelyn's mother's side? And didn't they all answer to Winterfell, and Lord Stark? I don't understand how it isn't part of the Northern Realm.

Harrenhall is in the Riverlands, far south of Moat Cailin. I think it is even South of Riverrun. It was built by Harren the Black but was burned along with Harren by Aegon the Conqueror. Since then, it has been ruled by several Houses (Whent, Lothstone, and others) who all swore fealty to House Tully, not House Stark

But none of that should matter now, since Robb is King of the Riverlands. Harrenhall is part of his realm

[Ramsay Gimp]

I should edit - Roose and Jaime/Brienne's scene was good too. But far too short

[Sun]

Robb's arc is such a mess, and has been since S2, that I've given up caring about all the plot flaws. I now simply accept that it will fall apart upon closer inspection, it's far more relaxing, I find, than constantly picking at that scab of an arc.

My only remaining ambition for Robb's story is that they do RW justice. That's really all I want for him now. They've messed up his life, let them do right by his death.

[Nictarion]

Robb's arc is such a mess, and has been since S2, that I've given up caring about all the plot flaws. I now simply accept that it will fall apart upon closer inspection, it's far more relaxing, I find, than constantly picking at that scab of an arc.

My only remaining ambition for Robb's story is that they do RW justice. That's really all I want for him now. They've messed up his life, let them do right by his death.

I really have high hopes for the RW. The show has got a lot of the really big stuff right, Blackwater, Dracarys. Although they butchered the HOTU. So we shall see. D & D did say the RW was the reason they wanted to make the show, so hopefully they really nail that scene.

[lunadangelo]

Did anybody pick up Loras' mention of 'French' sleeves when talking to Sansa about her wedding dress. Odd or what!

[AdiTarg]

I think he said, fringed sleeves...