[BOOK SPOILERS] Gendry, Melisandre, Arya, etc.

[Zman1863]

'Suppposed' to be? Who is 'good' in this story. I quite liked that the incident was a shock to viewers. No one is 100% good. "If you think this story has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention".

Yeah I actually think they did a decent job of conveying that the Brotherhood is flawed like every other group or faction that we see in the series. This comes through in the books as well. It doesn't show up as strongly as it does in this episode until Beric has died and Stoneheart's rise has fractured the group, but Arya sees plenty early on that makes the reader see that they fail to live up to their noble goals.

Just the fact that Arya witnesses a trial by combat of a man she knows to be guilty is enough to make one skeptical about the brotherhood. Admittedly, adhering to a trial by combat is settled law in Westeros, but we know that the practice is complete BS and its significant that Arya learns this lesson while staying with this supposedly pure group.

[Masamune]

Did Melisandre borrow LF's tardis?

[Warrior Queen]

Honestly, I thought it was Awesome!

I rewinded the scene to watch it again.

Loved that Melissandre and Thoros spoke High Valyrian to each other!

I somehow think she is going to ask Gendry to make her another son...instead of a sacrifice.

They totally made a point out of it that Gendry thought she was hot.

Something really intrigued me: Mel's conversation with Arya. Mainly the "We will meet again"

I feel there are implications on this line regarding the unreleased book 6 and Arya's future.

I was wondering the same thing...

[Envie]

I don't believe they'll kill Gendry for the king's blood. Based on what bit I could see in the preview for next week, it seems to me he's going to be revealed as a 'bastard son' of Robert and therefore capable of making more 'shadow babies' the same as Stannis. He's obviously having a hard time understanding or wanting to cooperate with something that bizarre since he's assumed his whole life he's just a nothing byproduct. I foresee Melisandre seducing him the same as she did Stannis.

[Maxthestig]

I think this is maybe one of the most Important scenes. I loved it.

I felt a lump in my throat when Thoros was talking about his loss of faith and wanting his friend to live!

I loved it!

[jeffklm]

Slightly off-topic

I'm confused about the Red God and the Lord of Light. It seems evident in the show that the Red God = the Lord of Light. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall R'hllor ever being called the Red God in the books.

Jaqen H'ghar supposedly serves the Red God. Yet we know that FM and The House of Black and White serve the Many-Faced God/ the God of Death/the Great Other. How can the Lord of Light be the same as the Great Other if they are enemies? Or is my assumption of Many-Faced God = Great Other wrong?

[Death by Cupcakes]

To what Melisandre said to Arya (correct me if I am wrong) "I see a darkness in you and in that darkness eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes...eyes you'll shut forever. We will meet again." Does this mean that as a Faceless Man she will kill 3 people of note? Notice that she did not say a pair of eyes that changed colour, nor does she say 3 sets of eyes.

I doubt that means a fixed number.

Just that she will kill and kill often and easily.

Slightly off-topic

I'm confused about the Red God and the Lord of Light. It seems evident in the show that the Red God = the Lord of Light. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall R'hllor ever being called the Red God in the books.

Jaqen H'ghar supposedly serves the Red God. Yet we know that FM and The House of Black and White serve the Many-Faced God/ the God of Death/the Great Other. How can the Lord of Light be the same as the Great Other if they are enemies? Or is my assumption of Many-Faced God = Great Other wrong?

I always understood Jaqen H'ghars Red God as a Blood God, who is the same as the Many-Faced God of The House of Black and White in Braavos.

This is not, however, the Great Other, who I understood as an entity of utter chaos and pure destruction (which the Many-Faced God is not, imo).

It is possible the Great Other exists only in the Red Priests religion as opponent for their God of Light.

[jugdesh258]

Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes...eyes you'll shut forever.

Hardly seems worthy of any foreshadowing discussion in the manner that many good members here have linked prophecy and passages in the books.

Too trivial. Who cares what color eyes Poliver has or the Guard at Haranhall. Not sure why we need to assume it is major character.

That seems the risk when they drift so far..... Unlike the novels it does not seem they have future seasons worked out to cash in on this so I am going to put in reject bin right away

[Not_All_Ravens_Are_Grim]

Wow. I loved these scenes.

Reading over this discussion, I'm wondering if Melisandre may meet Arya in Braavos, perhaps as a stand-in for the Kindly Man (it seems unlikely given her religion's focus on Light and Life, as opposed to the heavy focus on the Gift of Death) or as an enemy to Arya, for that exact reason- their opposing positions.

Cool as some face-offs between the two could be, I doubt it will occur, simply because Melisandre seems so important to what's happening at the Wall in "Dance with Dragons" (I'm only on Davos II in that book, so I'm not certain if this is true.)

[The Night's Prince]

I took the eye scene to mean Arya will kill 3 people with green, blue, and brown eyes. I assume green is Cersei? But the other two I'm not so sure about.

[MMOWarrior]

Just throwing out a thought.. for some reason the eyes you'll shut forever makes me think of Aryas blindness..

[Lady Phedre]

I think the quote about the different eyes also imply Arya's status as a faceless men.

But the thing that annoyed me was Mellisandre saying "Valar Morgulis", that's not her saying. That's the Faceless Men's saying, because they worship death. She does not.

That's what I took from it too - the eyes/many identities/Faceless Man.

This might be totally off but I kind of felt like Melisandre and Thoros saying "Valar Morghulis" and "Valar Dohaeris" to each other as kind of like when Freemasons meet each other - they have certain sayings to recognize each other...maybe just speaking in High Valyrian is something that the followers of R'hllor do and they greet each other in this way and speak High Valyrian to each other as a matter of practice/custom. But of course Melisandre and Thoros already know exactly who the other is and don't need to "recognize" each other in this way, and all the priests/priestesses of R'hllor wear red. Maybe it was just an excuse for us to get to hear more of the badass High Valyrian since this episode was so sorely lacking in any Dany scenes...

[God_made_me_do_it]

This is most definitely the biggest real departure from the books I think I've seen yet - although it's quite cool they did it and it certainly raises questions for those who've read the books. What I'm wondering though, is whether this is something of a feint - whether Melisandre merely gives some exposition on needing King's blood for a ritual of some form, but the BwB actually have a change of heart and rescue him in the next episode. After all, Edric gets freed anyway, so it would allow the bits involving Edric to be revealed, and also giving us some nice background info on Thoros and the priests of Rh'llor.

[The Night's Prince]

That's what I took from it too - the eyes/many identities/Faceless Man.

This might be totally off but I kind of felt like Melisandre and Thoros saying "Valar Morghulis" and "Valar Dohaeris" to each other as kind of like when Freemasons meet each other - they have certain sayings to recognize each other...maybe just speaking in High Valyrian is something that the followers of R'hllor do and they greet each other in this way and speak High Valyrian to each other as a matter of practice/custom. But of course Melisandre and Thoros already know exactly who the other is and don't need to "recognize" each other in this way, and all the priests/priestesses of R'hllor wear red. Maybe it was just an excuse for us to get to hear more of the badass High Valyrian since this episode was so sorely lacking in any Dany scenes...

How do you get that at all? She said, "eyes you'll shut forever." It had nothing to do with being a FM. That spoke of her killing people. You don't have to be a FM to kill people. When Jaquen gave her the coin was referencing her status as a FM man. You don't need another reference when you already have one.

[bobbybuilderton]

I think they made it Gendry so that Stannis's struggle resonates with casual viewers more strongly. That line from the trailer will probably be next episode, where he talks about duty.

So what could happen is Stannis is told that it's his nephew and he balks at Melisandre and is like THAT'S what you meant? So he is conflicted. Believes he owes Gendry some kind of explanation, and we have him telling Gendry that great or small, we must do our duty. So Gendry thinks he's just explaining why the Lord of Light chose him to be offered, but the audience gets the double meaning where he's also telling that to himself. Something like that anyway

[Druze]

Even in ADWD I got the feeling that if Arya returns to Westeros it will be to Jon and the wall. With the night's watch people coming in through Bravos and the information that seems to reach Arya the Wall makes sense to me. I'm sure if information reaches Arya that Jon Snow is dead and was murdered by his own men she's quickly booking passage to Eastwatch and taking her newly acquired gift with her, even if Jon is resurrected maybe that news reaches Bravos after Arya is already enroute.

[pandagod]

Really interesting seeing Melisandre and Arya, don´t know if GRRM has a plan in the future or not for those two... Could someone post what she said to Arya ?

[go joff go]

Did anyone think for a second Arya was going to actually attack Mel. And wouldn't have that been awesome.

Also these IMO were the best Mel scenes we have had in the show so far, even if they were made up. She was really how I pictured her in the book in that it felt like she was geninely more important then everyone else and carried herself that way. I could see this Mel intimidating people.

[ugashep]

If this was Star Wars, Arya would be drifting very close to the dark side of the force, much anger Yoda would sense in her, I think that's basically what Mel said, and the Ghost of High Heart said in the books.

[shiola]

Really interesting seeing Melisandre and Arya, don´t know if GRRM has a plan in the future or not for those two... Could someone post what she said to Arya ?

Arya: You're a witch. You're going to hurt him.

Melisandre: I see a darkness in you. And in that darkness eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes. Eyes you'll shut forever. We will meet again.