[BOOK SPOILERS] Gendry, Melisandre, Arya, etc.

[Red Woman]

I found this scene fascinating because I do think D&D are dropping BIG hints about the ending of the series. They know where this is all going and those were not just throwaway lines. I know it's been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, buttThe line that really stuck out to me in Mel's scene with Arya was the "green eyes" bit. Who do we know who has green eyes other than the Lannisters, and who does Arya really want to kill? I thought it could definitely be foreshadowing that Arya will end up killing a Lannister. Cersei's the one on Arya's hit list, but I'm not sure if Arya will be the valonqar after all. Still, very interesting to think about where they might be going with this. I don't think it's a red herring, it sounded to me like a clue for book readers.

Also, does anyone else think Melisandre's reaction to Beric had more to do with the fact that he'd been brought back six times, and that she didn't know that was possible before meeting him? She seems to know already that the Lord of Light has the power to resurrect. I definitely subscribe to the theory that Mel has received the kiss before and is herself undead. In fact, that very first scene where Beric and Mel meet and are just sort of looking at each other -- to me, that looked like two undead people sizing each other up.

[Red Woman]

Double post, sorry!

[I'm_Tim]

I interpreted the scene to say that those are the people that Arya will become, not kill. Those are her disguises as a FM. She will see through those eyes and then shut them when shes done.

They'll meet again because they represent the different beliefs. FM bring the gift of death. The followers of the Red God cheat death through resurrection. "The darkness" isn't necessarily a bad thing in this world. The darkness is pure while the light is sorcery.

[Red Woman]

Actually, having just watched the episode again, what surprises Melisandre is not that Beric has been resurrected but that he has been resurrected six times. The fact that she took to the concept of resurrection so casually is quite intriguing.

As for Arya and Melisandre, if they ever meet again (or for the first time, if we are referring to the books), I think Braavos is more likely as the location.

I think this lends credence to the theory that Melisandre is undead and has herself been resurrected by the kiss of fire before. She doesn't seem surprised that it's possible because she's had it happen to her. The reaction that we're seeing is her amazement that someone has been able to do it six times, a non-devout priest at that.

[I'm_Tim]

Also, I've always thought Arya and the Faceless Men are good and interpret death as a good thing. They only give the gift to those that deserve it, or ask for it. Meanwhile, Milisandre is a manipulator and preys on the weak. Stannis is weak and vulnerable. He's blinded by his thirst for power. Thoros almost feels guilty for using The Lord of Light's power and drinks himself to death to deal with it.

Those are just my interpretations from the material. Obviously, we all see it differently.

[Gendels Children]

Its one of the rare scenes that I think tells us some of what's going to happen or not in books 6/7.

Clearly Gendry won't be playing a role with the BWB (having him travel all the to Dragonstone and back again would be asinine, and he won't trust them anymore), but he has to have some role; or else it would've been easier to introduce Edric Storm instead of shoehorning Mel into the Riverlands.

There also would've been no point to Mel's line to Arya unless they do somehow meet again. So either Mel is headed to Braavos, Arya to the Wall (that'd be my guess), or they both meet somewhere else.

And the added focus on the Red God suggests to me that he, or at least the religion, will play a major role in the end.

yes1 very good this is what i was thinking when she said "we will meet again" very nice, it got me all excited XD. i think they would be most like to meet at the wall, as Mel is her strongest there i think she loves the power too much to want to leave until the whole war with the others is over, unless some huge drama pushes her away from the wall (possible the aftermath of something we have already seen triggered at the was in ADWD) i cant see her willingly heading some where else like bravos

[Gendels Children]

I think this lends credence to the theory that Melisandre is undead and has herself been resurrected by the kiss of fire before. She doesn't seem surprised that it's possible because she's had it happen to her. The reaction that we're seeing is her amazement that someone has been able to do it six times, a non-devout priest at that.

i think if she would have known about the power to resurrect people already. she was trained quite well, in her chapters she seems to at least think she knows alot about the powers of her lord. but even if she isnt undead there is someting lyinh beneath her glamours for sure.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

It's really crazy for people to jump to the conclusions that the writers are foreshadowing stuff that hasn't happened in the books yet.

Most viewers will forget that Arya and Melisandre meet four or five seasons from now like some are suggesting (book 6 foreshadowing)

The show is simply not going to broadcast events that happen that far down the road. Not yet. Will they leave the door open, sure.

They skipped every bit of prophecy in the House of Undying, GoHH exactly for the reason that they don't want to George Lucas themselves.

Here's some eye colors for you...

(show) Eddard Stark = green eyes

(show) Catelyn = blue eyes

(show) The Hound= brown eyes

~~~~

Did you guys notice Samwell mentioning Darion this episode? Leaving the door open for him to make an appearance down the road. Usually characters mentioned on the show are going to be seen later on....

[Gendels Children]

any how, i really liked this scene, but i was expecting not to. Arya being so confronting to Mel was interesting, Arya has been quite down played in the tv show, she has killed and hurt less people than in the books, and we didnt get her breaking Lems nose. so i feel her not reaction to Mel was well needed, many people are afraid of the red woman, as we know through out the books, but not our little brave Arry, infact after rewatching everytime Mel looks at her, she seems a little frightened herself. also Mel possibly giving some hints into the FM i think, and the statement that they will meet again, i squealed when she said that! taking the place of the woods witch, so we all still know ther is a great darkness in this one. very good scene i felt, and im usually not very excepting of changes in the storylines like this, but well done to them!

[Gendels Children]

Here's some eye colors for you...

(show) Eddard Stark = green eyes

(show) Catelyn = blue eyes

(show) The Hound= brown eyes

~~~~

Did you guys notice Samwell mentioning Darion this episode? Leaving the door open for him to make an appearance down the road. Usually characters mentioned on the show are going to be seen later on....

was thrilled by the meantion of Darion! also i when Melisandre began naming colours i was shocked she didnt say yellow. surely if she is seeing these people through her eyes, she would see Nymeria, but it seems there will be no meantion of her wild wolf or her pack this season at all. :(

[Landis]

People have been suggesting the idea of UnMel, but nobody has mentioned a section of the resurrection conversation that I thought was a little interesting, when Mel says something like "You've been to the other side?" and Beric replies to the effect of "I've been to the darkness, there is no other side." If Mel was resurrected herself, it seems she had a rather different death experience than Beric did, or variably, she simply wasn't resurrected. Did anybody else pick up on her latching on to that fact?

In another vein, I remember harboring vague suspicions about Gendry being Robert and Cersei's supposedly stillborn son after Cersei told Catelyn that story back in season one. The show's returned emphasis on his royal blood this week dredged that thought up again. Not even going to try to push that through as logical or likely, but it was one of the early deviations from the book that had more than just me wondering about what Gendry's true role was going to be... Make of it what you will.

[Gendels Children]

People have been suggesting the idea of UnMel, but nobody has mentioned a section of the resurrection conversation that I thought was a little interesting, when Mel says something like "You've been to the other side?" and Beric replies to the effect of "I've been to the darkness, there is no other side." If Mel was resurrected herself, it seems she had a rather different death experience than Beric did, or variably, she simply wasn't resurrected. Did anybody else pick up on her latching on to that fact?

In another vein, I remember harboring vague suspicions about Gendry being Robert and Cersei's supposedly stillborn son after Cersei told Catelyn that story back in season one. The show's returned emphasis on his royal blood this week dredged that thought up again. Not even going to try to push that through as logical or likely, but it was one of the early deviations from the book that had more than just me wondering about what Gendry's true role was going to be... Make of it what you will.

really good point, she did seem to be clinging to that, i found that interesting also. and the gendry thing was something to consider, its curious why they would just make up a fake child for one small scene which changes the whole idea of her never bearing a trueborn child to Robert. maybe they only put it in to point out about the childs black hair. but just thiking out loud here, how would they present his parentage to him, who would know, and what would be the point. its good but maybe not so solid

[Sixshells]

Yeah I kinda had to wonder about those little detail omissions as well. I realize she's got 'sight' from her powers, but she's even admitted it's not always perfectly clear. Musta been like damn GPS type clear in order to not only pinpoint the exact location of Gendry but to just waltz right into their camp and buy him off like a piece of cattle. Wow.

How she got there was ridiculous. She teleported from Dragonstone, through territories at war, to get to the BwB and will be there back again, with Gendry, the next episode? Such madly easy travelling puts a strain on willing suspension of disbelief.

Otherwise, on the one hand the whole Melisandre section was rather well done. Fusioning Edric and Gendry makes sense, particularly after they fused several characters in Shireen last episode, given that we don't see much of Gendry after Arya leaves the BwB but they still want to have the actor around. It was also genuinely interesting to see what they do with the religion of R'hllor in the show. The overall interaction between Melisandre and Arya was also good too.

But it was annoying to see them hinting at possible spoilers for later books. Or maybe not. Not all people read the same amount of foreshadowing in it, and it should be well established by now that the show is not book canon as it diverges way too much from the books. Yet it bothers me that the show may be hinting at what is going to happen in books 6 and 7. One could have hoped that even if the the show lasts long enough and eventually goes ahead of the books, it would still be safe to watch them until that point. Or maybe we are reading too much into it.

I hated the "we will meet again". It so ridiculous, so poorly delivered, so obviously for shock value and to stir wild and empty fan hypotheses that it would have been better to cut it from the scene. It's utterly superfluous and frivolous.

In another vein, I remember harboring vague suspicions about Gendry being Robert and Cersei's supposedly stillborn son after Cersei told Catelyn that story back in season one. The show's returned emphasis on his royal blood this week dredged that thought up again. Not even going to try to push that through as logical or likely, but it was one of the early deviations from the book that had more than just me wondering about what Gendry's true role was going to be... Make of it what you will.

You do well to say it is not logical or likely, as a stillborn child is quite dead. UnGendry?

It's much more likely to stress out that "the seed is strong" in Robert and that even with Cercei his children would have been dark haired. And so to remind to the viewer that Cercei's children cannot be Robert's.

[Landis]

The general assumption of the theory was that the baby was not actually stillborn, but Cersei was not able to confirm whether he was alive or not because he was immediately taken from her. I am completely aware of the lacking probability of the theory, but as Kissed~by~Fire indicated, it was strange that they changed the infertility of Robert and Cersei's marriage: it provided the opportunity to stress "the seed is strong," as well as establishing the mother-to-mother connection between Cersei and Catelyn, and offering a more sympathetic initial view of Cersei than we have in the books at this stage, but it also means that there was a suspicious child that was quickly disposed of, which, truth be told, is the stuff pretenders and long lost prince stories are made of. That's a double-edged sword they put in the fire, and I would hardly be surprised if they whip it out to cut the other way.

ETA: grammar.

[The Mondrian Oak]

How she got there was ridiculous. She teleported from Dragonstone, through territories at war, to get to the BwB and will be there back again, with Gendry, the next episode? Such madly easy travelling puts a strain on willing suspension of disbelief.

Teleported? It took her three episodes to get to the BwB. Do you want real time journeys? Are we supposed to wait a month for a character to get somewhere because it would take a month to travel from one place to another? Time leaps are fundamental in storytelling. Yes, she will be in Dragonstone next episode. Do you want them to show a "four weeks later..." sign?

And how do you know that she did not meet any cutthroat or outlaw, or even soldiers in her way? Maybe she met them, and her guards protected her. Just because they didn't show it, it does not mean it didn't happen. Or maybe, since she had seen where Gendry was in the flames, she also knew the safest way to go.

This is like when people were calling a plot hole the fact that they hadn't been shown how Batman got back to Gotham after being imprisoned in The Dark Knight Rises.

[ChozenOne]

Arya: You're a witch. You're going to hurt him.

Melisandre: I see a darkness in you. And in that darkness eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes. Eyes you'll shut forever. We will meet again.

I don"t think the eye colors really mean anything. I think it is more to show that she will have many personas/appearances as a faceless man. And I think the "Eyes you'll shut forever" isn't referencing the people she kills, but that she will close her Arya Stark eyes forever and actually become no one. Don't know what to make of the "we will meet again line".

[Khal Porno]

I'm assuming you have read the books but for someone who hasn't, someone who is just a television viewer, what do you imagine they will think when Jon is assassinated and Melisandre is there?

They will probably think the same thing we all thought when we read it in the book, which was that she will probably use Thoros' resurrection technique since they are both red priest(esse)s.

My exact thoughts when I read this scene were "FUCK!!! THAT BASTARD KILLED JON SNOW!!" and then a few seconds later "wait, maybe he warged into Ghost like the dude in the beginning of the book" and then a few seconds after that "wait, maybe Melisandre will resurrect him like that Thoros dude did because they are both Red Priests...that's probably what will happen" and then a few seconds later "FUCK!! HE BETTER NOT BE DEAD!!"

Pardon my French.

[MarieAntoinette]

I found this scene fascinating because I do think D&D are dropping BIG hints about the ending of the series. They know where this is all going and those were not just throwaway lines. I know it's been mentioned elsewhere in the thread, buttThe line that really stuck out to me in Mel's scene with Arya was the "green eyes" bit. Who do we know who has green eyes other than the Lannisters, and who does Arya really want to kill? I thought it could definitely be foreshadowing that Arya will end up killing a Lannister. Cersei's the one on Arya's hit list, but I'm not sure if Arya will be the valonqar after all. Still, very interesting to think about where they might be going with this. I don't think it's a red herring, it sounded to me like a clue for book readers.

I found Melisandres scene with Arya very interesting and intriguing as well. And I hope that those lines were meant to forshadow Arya's future killings. I know that some people would not like it if the show hints to events that will happen in the last two books, but personally with all the waiting time I would love it if the writers include some information that they have gathered from GRRM about future storylines.

[Ice Turtle]

Arya: You're a witch. You're going to hurt him.

Melisandre: I see a darkness in you. And in that darkness eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes. Eyes you'll shut forever. We will meet again.

I don"t think the eye colors really mean anything. I think it is more to show that she will have many personas/appearances as a faceless man. And I think the "Eyes you'll shut forever" isn't referencing the people she kills, but that she will close her Arya Stark eyes forever and actually become no one. Don't know what to make of the "we will meet again line".

Arya Stark doesn't have three pairs of eyes. And at least in books her eyes are grey.This makes little sense. If it doesn't refer to people she kills it could refer to burial rites she performs in THoBaW, which probably contain act of closing eyes, only those eyes and faces are used one last time as disguise.

Side note did anyone else notice that in show it's said that Jon's eyes are brown? (infamous Cat/Talisa scene) I hope this won't fuel theories about Arya killing Jon, on the other hand brown is the most common color.

[Khal Porno]

Mate, if you really got it, you (complainers) wouldn't be saying it every week, every year. It's like disliking sea food, yet WILLINGLY eating it every sunday and then complaining about its taste. Either you stop eating it, or you accept its taste. Saying, every week, every year "yikes, sea food tastes bad" is plain ridiculous, at this point.

LOL!! This is probably the best analogy I've seen for this phenomenon, and perfectly encapsulates what is going on here. I will steal this from you in the future, if you don't mind haha.