[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[The Mondrian Oak]

That is probably why they should be working up the absolute horribleness of the match, instead of trying to make less horrendous. So you don't the ridiculous stance of people pretending it isn't that bad.

Sorry mate, I think something is missing in your last sentence, because I really don't understand it!

Well, I didn't. Tyrion is one of my favorites, but in that wedding, I defend Sansa. The point is at least in the books we could understand Sansa for not liking or wanting to be with Tyrion. Tyrion is not a shining armor knight in the books, and he is far from being perfect. But how can people defend Sansa or feel for bad for her in the show when Tyrion is basically "the purest definition of good, strong, and kind"? (like the unsullied of the TWoP say)

Well, if they feel that way, they're clearly wrong (and stupid). Show Tyrion is WAY better than book Tyrion; still, a whoring-plotting-drinking dwarf. Not a hideous monster as in the books, but if he's "the purest definition of good, strong, and kind", what was Ned then?

[1234567]

Well, I didn't. Tyrion is one of my favorites, but in that wedding, I defend Sansa. The point is at least in the books we could understand Sansa for not liking or wanting to be with Tyrion. Tyrion is not a shining armor knight in the books, and he is far from being perfect. But how can people defend Sansa or feel for bad for her in the show when Tyrion is basically "the purest definition of good, strong, and kind"? (like the unsullied of the TWoP say)

In the books Tyrion going through with the wedding was my turning point from having him as my favourite character, to one I began to dislike. Mainly because until that point, I had thought he was one of the good guys. It was only on re-reads that I even really noticed him hitting Shae or breaking Marillion's fingers, or that he was an unreliable narrator etc.

They could have used Sansa's thoughts from the book where she thinks that she wants her children to hate all Lannisters and the show could have played up the Lannister hatred angle and her despair about being used for her claim, but no, they went with dwarf dislike. To be honest I don't know how they are going to get Tyrion to kill Shae believably next season.

The Unsullied on TWOP are already dismissing the idea that LF set everything up as unbelievable, so it will be a shock when that proves correct. Of course they may make Shae into Fatal Attraction style Shae, but I am disappointed that D&D chose to make the forced child bride the bad guy in this situation.

[Sun]

Show Tyrion is the closest thing this show has to a hero. Dinklage is handsome, and extremely charming, and kind, and has been nothing but good to Sansa. TV watchers will agree with Marg, and will not understand it if Sansa humiliates Tyrion at their wedding. Show viewers can only see Tyrion as a very good option for Sansa because they've been given no reason not to see it that way.

[Minsc]

Sorry mate, I think something is missing in your last sentence, because I really don't understand it!

They should be working on making sure they don't have viewers holding the stance that Sansa is somehow ungrateful or that her match with Tyrion is not a terrible one for her.

[velki]

My main complaint is mostly that it seemed like the first 20-25 minutes of the episode was nothing but a big ol' spew of T&A. I mean, I understand it in things like the case of Theon's scene, but did Theon's scene really need to last /that/ long on the girls sequence? It was obvious really quick what was going on happen when they were flirting with him instead of helping him escape, so it just seemed excessive that it listed as long as it did.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Which is a fault in how the showrunners have treated and portrayed Tyrion, NOT Sansa. Honestly, making Tyrion "the purest definition of good, strong, and kind" makes me sick to my stomach. Completely wrong approach to take with a brilliantly complicated character (on the page).

Quite frankly, it has gotten to the point that Tyrion's scenes interest me as much as Theon's torture scenes. As how, I figure there will never be any complexity in his character that might interest me thus unless I like the person he is staring across (like Charles Dance) I don't pay attention them.

Agree with this so much. Tyrion is one of my favorite characters in the books, and exactly for his complexity. But show Tryion? mehh... I don't pay attention to him anymore. Whenever I see him on screen, I pay attention to the other characters that are with him like Tywin and Joffrey. But for example in last week's episode in his scene with Cersei I was just paying attention to the details of the set and the background not to any of them. Show Tyrion is not interesting to me.

Well, if they feel that way, they're clearly wrong (and stupid). Show Tyrion is WAY better than book Tyrion; still, a whoring-plotting-drinking dwarf. Not a hideous monster as in the books, but if he's "the purest definition of good, strong, and kind", what was Ned then?

Well, even you thought Tyrion was a good match for Sansa, so....what does that tell you? And you read the books. How do you think non-readers are going to react? Whoring? Shae is the only woman he has sex with. He is kind and loyal to Shae. They love each other :ack: . Plotting? He hasn't done much since Tywin took the Hand of the King title from him. And he didn't do anything really bad when his was Hand, and he saved the city. Drinking? When so far this season has he been drunk? Well I don't know if you haven't noticed, but Tyrion has become Ned 2.0. The unsullied of the TWoP say that if Ned would have been able to "see" Tyrion, he would have seen how good person he actually is. And that Tyrion would be the kind of man that he would want Sansa to marry. What does that tell you?

In the books Tyrion going through with the wedding was my turning point from having him as my favourite character, to one I began to dislike. Mainly because until that point, I had thought he was one of the good guys. It was only on re-reads that I even really noticed him hitting Shae or breaking Marillion's fingers, or that he was an unreliable narrator etc.

Haha, you only noticed it in re-read, really? I noticed it since the first time I read the books, and that "dark side" is exactly why he became one of my favorites, and still is. The moment I said "I love this character" was when he said that when he was a kid he would imagine his father and sister burning. Because I saw his complexity, and I love characters with "dark sides".

They could have used Sansa's thoughts from the book where she thinks that she wants her children to hate all Lannisters and the show could have played up the Lannister hatred angle and her despair about being used for her claim, but no, they went with dwarf dislike. To be honest I don't know how they are going to get Tyrion to kill Shae believably next season.

The Unsullied on TWOP are already dismissing the idea that LF set everything up as unbelievable, so it will be a shock when that proves correct. Of course they may make Shae into Fatal Attraction style Shae, but I am disappointed that D&D chose to make the forced child bride the bad guy in this situation.

Yes, I don't like how he's being handled. Poor Sansa everybody is going to hate her :(. I also don't know how they are going to make him kill Shae, or if he is even going to do it.

[Minsc]

Agree with this so much. Tyrion is one of my favorite characters in the books, and exactly for his complexity. But show Tryion? mehh... I don't pay attention to him anymore whenever I see him on screen. I pay attention to the other characters that are with him like Tywin and Joffrey. But for example in last week's episode in his scene with Cersei I was just paying attention to the details of the set and the background not to any of them. Show Tyrion is not interesting to me.

The show's boring Tyrion has actually impacted my liking of the book Tyrion, simply I cannot get their constant worshiping of the character out of my head when reading his chapters and that bothers me. Call me a hipster, but I don't enjoy being beaten over the head about how I must like said characters by the writers and that detracts from my enjoyment of said characters.

I also don't know how they are going to make him kill Shae, or if he is even going to do it.

Maybe, they can have Sansa kill Shae thus furthering the hate for her that they are building to. ;)

[The Mondrian Oak]

Well, even you thought Tyrion was a good match for Sansa, so....what does that tell you? And you read the books. How do you think non-readers are going to react? Whoring? Shae is the only woman he has sex with. He is kind and loyal to Shae. They love each other :ack: . Plotting? He hasn't done much since Tywin took the Hand of the King title from him. And he didn't do anything really bad when his was Hand, and he saved the city. Drinking? When so far this season has he been drunk? Well I don't know if you haven't noticed, but Tyrion has become Ned 2.0. The unsullied of the TWoP say that if Ned would have been able to "see" Tyrion, he would have seen how good person he actually is. And that Tyrion would be the kind of man that he would want Sansa to marry. What does that tell you?

Well, I think that the unsullied ignoring that Tyrion would constantly "cheat" on Sansa with Shae is a bit too much. That's not a good start for a wedding, is it?

Anyhow, I can infer from Margaery's comments that D&D actually want the audience to think that Tyrion is actually a good match. How that will play out, I don't know. I'm willing to wait and see.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Did Catelyn really have that big of a role in ASOS though? I could be wrong here, but didn't she have a more passive role during the last stages of Robb's campaign? So while the lack of focus on her is a bit frustrating, especially since the RW is only two episodes away, it's not like she needs as much, or even more screentime than Arya or Jon, whose arcs have been relatively underdeveloped this season.

[Joyful Union]

Did Catelyn really have that big of a role in ASOS though? I could be wrong here, but didn't she have a more passive role during the last stages of Robb's campaign? So while the lack of focus on her is a bit frustrating, especially since the RW is only two episodes away, it's not like she needs as much, or even more screentime than Arya or Jon, whose arcs have been relatively underdeveloped this season.

Mostly she just watches Robb, and has lengthy internal monologues in SoS. At least she had a bit of a longer scene this episode.

[six]

Catelyn's role wasn't that big, but being a POV you get to know her a lot more. My biggest gripe with Catelyn's lack of screen time is that, contrary to Robb who stays dead, she does not. So we need to be way more involved in Catelyn to understand what drives LS.

[TomBadgerlock]

Catelyn's role wasn't that big, but being a POV you get to know her a lot more. My biggest gripe with Catelyn's lack of screen time is that, contrary to Robb who stays dead, she does not. So we need to be way more involved in Catelyn to understand what drives LS.

Unless they make LS more like Beric.

[PatrickStormborn]

Did Catelyn really have that big of a role in ASOS though? I could be wrong here, but didn't she have a more passive role during the last stages of Robb's campaign? So while the lack of focus on her is a bit frustrating, especially since the RW is only two episodes away, it's not like she needs as much, or even more screentime than Arya or Jon, whose arcs have been relatively underdeveloped this season.

The showrunners delayed the introduction of the Tullys, so why not give Catelyn some of the conversations she had with them in the first couple of books?

Arya needs more screentime too, but Jon has had the right amount the past couple of episodes (sadly to the detriment of the quality of the episodes). But plenty of time is wasted on Robb/Talisa, Theon, Tyrion etc. that could be given to Catelyn.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Catelyn's role wasn't that big, but being a POV you get to know her a lot more. My biggest gripe with Catelyn's lack of screen time is that, contrary to Robb who stays dead, she does not. So we need to be way more involved in Catelyn to understand what drives LS.

But the only emotion she seems to be feeling at this stage in the books is grief. We've already had two monologues from her that detail her grief over losing her children, so how many more do we need before it starts to become redundant?

[Nagisa Furukawa]

The show's boring Tyrion has actually impacted my liking of the book Tyrion, simply I cannot get their constant worshiping of the character out of my head when reading his chapters and that bothers me. Call me a hipster, but I don't enjoy being beaten over the head about how I must like said characters by the writers and that detracts from my enjoyment of said characters.

Honestly, I can't even see getting like this because the show's Tyrion is such a completely different character by this point that it'd be near impossible for me to think of that Tyrion when reading the book. By this point, the guy who has a singer murdered and fed to poor people, then laughs about it down the line, has about as much in common with the guy who fulfills his role in the show as much as Vargo Hoat and Locke.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

The show's boring Tyrion has actually impacted my liking of the book Tyrion, simply I cannot get their constant worshiping of the character out of my head when reading his chapters and that bothers me. Call me a hipster, but I don't enjoy being beaten over the head about how I must like said characters by the writers and that detracts from my enjoyment of said characters.

I know how you feel. But I have a trick to still enjoy the characters. The hipster inside me tells me that they were never able to understand the complexity of those characters like I did. ;)

Maybe, they can have Sansa kill Shae thus furthering the hate for her that they are building to. ;)

Please, NO! Don't give them ideas. I don't know maybe they'll make Tywin kill Shae? And then that's the reason why Tyrion kills him? :dunno:

Well, I think that the unsullied ignoring that Tyrion would constantly "cheat" on Sansa with Shae is a bit too much. That's not a good start for a wedding, is it?

It certainly is not. But some of them think that since Sansa and Shae are BFFs they will be able to solve that problem :ack:

Anyhow, I can infer from Margaery's comments that D&D actually want the audience to think that Tyrion is actually a good match. How that will play out, I don't know. I'm willing to wait and see.

I'm willing to wait and see how it plays out. But I can already see the Sansa hatred coming from where I'm waiting.

[Nagisa Furukawa]

I don't know maybe they'll make Tywin kill Shae? And then that's the reason why Tyrion kills him? :dunno:

Even with all the changes, I still thought last season that all this "Shae cares about Tyrion!" stuff was just to make the eventual revelation of her in Tywin's bed and Tyrion killing her that much more shocking to the uninitiated. And part of me still hopes this is the root they'll go down.

But now? I genuinely worry this is precisely where the arc is going and that might be the worst change in the series to date.

[Pinkie Baelish]

By this point, the guy who has a singer murdered and fed to poor people, then laughs about it down the line, has about as much in common with the guy who fulfills his role in the show as much as Vargo Hoat and Locke.

Well in his defense, he never actually ordered for Symon to be turned into food. He just wanted him disposed of, and it's hard to tell whether Bronn was even being serious about turning him into stew.

[Minsc]

Honestly, I can't even see getting like this because the show's Tyrion is such a completely different character by this point that it'd be near impossible for me to think of that Tyrion when reading the book. By this point, the guy who has a singer murdered and fed to poor people, then laughs about it down the line, has about as much in common with the guy who fulfills his role in the show as much as Vargo Hoat and Locke.

To be fair, a lot of it comes from how GRRM himself seems to do it with Tyrion and Arya at times in their chapters thus I just latch onto the few times in the books with how the show does it in every scene he appears in.

[six]

Unless they make LS more like Beric.

Unless they do that, but it would defy her purpose. I'm all for making her more 3D, also because I get the feeling she'll be more prominent in the show that in the books, but she still needs to have most of LS's motivations from the books.

But the only emotion she seems to be feeling at this stage in the books is grief. We've already had two monologues from her that detail her grief over losing her children, so how many more do we need before it starts to become redundant?

Like PatrickStormborn says, they could give her some of her book interactions with the Tullys. And having slightly more Catelyn wouldn't be that much more redundant than some other scenes we get.