There are No Lemon Trees in Braavos (questioning Dany's childhood)

[Strongest Of All Belwas]

Guys, you're all forgeting about the Greenhouse effect. Dragon farts build up in the atmosphere, the effects can last generations. Clearly, several dragons farted around Braavos at some point.

[Theda Baratheon]

Lemons are linked to Sansa's cakes - naivete and innocence. Also, the lemon tree is outside, Dany is inside, so she is separated from her innocence and perhaps longs to be outside and free, like the lemon tree.

:P

I think it was a mistake on GRRM's part but this is slowly winning me around ;)

[Dr. Pepper]

My answer is that i don't want to seem like a horticulture expert or be relied on, i just did a bit of reading. I can't exclude for sure about courtyards. But to me, by outlining the freshwater canal system in Braavos, and by juxtaposing it with a brackish canal system in Braavos, in a place where fresh water has to be imported, and grass doesn't grow (poisoned soil), GRRM is telling us something. Dany is one of the main characters and why did he make her favorite memory, remembered many times, of a tree - in a place renowned for being tree-less?

Plus, why don't we see any lemon trees outside Dorne in Westeros?

I'm not trying to pick on this theory. I think there's something to the idea that Dany's memory is fallible. But I don't think that it's true that no lemon tree could ever grow in Braavos.

What I'm wondering is if Dany and Viserys actually stayed at the Sealord's Palace. If trees only grow in the courtyards of the mighty...well the Sealord is pretty mighty. Viserys had this notion that hired knives were always following them around. If they had been residing at the Sealord's Palance when the Sealord died, they would have seen a lot of fighting because it's said that knives come out during these times.

[Magic 8 Ball]

Then King's Landing should be full of macadamia nuts, and lemon trees - but it's not. Nor is anywhere else in Westeros apart from Dorne. Sansa cant find any lemons at the Eerie either, so they can't be growing on trees there.

It can't be done on a large scale, but you could have a small grove if you wanted it.

[Beorn Snow]

I think to much time is spent on this thread disputing where and why not trees grow.

It´s a good find, and an interesting propostion.

So let´s say Dany is repressing something.

Where if not Braavos would she have spent her childhood.

In Dorne? I think it´s pretty established they fled to the free cities.

Is it Viserys that´d be culpable for the abuse she is repressing? Or something else?

[mindchap]

I'm not trying to pick on this theory. I think there's something to the idea that Dany's memory is fallible. But I don't think that it's true that no lemon tree could ever grow in Braavos.

What I'm wondering is if Dany and Viserys actually stayed at the Sealord's Palace. If trees only grow in the courtyards of the mighty...well the Sealord is pretty mighty. Viserys had this notion that hired knives were always following them around. If they had been residing at the Sealord's Palance when the Sealord died, they would have seen a lot of fighting because it's said that knives come out during these times.

He had to be more than just a little mighty if he could hire unsullied to guard the place.

[Dr. Pepper]

He had to be more than just a little mighty if he could hire unsullied to guard the place.

I don't really recall Dany remembering Unsullied guarding the house with the red door.

[yolkboy]

What I'm wondering is if Dany and Viserys actually stayed at the Sealord's Palace. If trees only grow in the courtyards of the mighty...well the Sealord is pretty mighty.

Y'know... if at the end of the day it turns out that the lemon tree just proves she stayed somewhere posh, i have considered it. My idea was that she stayed somewhere R'hllor related (red door). Aren't the religious places supposed to be pretty exquisite in Braavos? I think it was Moqorro at her wedding "a red priest even fatter than Illyrio", maybe the Reds have known about Dany longer than we think.

[Penguin king]

I'm not trying to pick on this theory. I think there's something to the idea that Dany's memory is fallible. But I don't think that it's true that no lemon tree could ever grow in Braavos.

What I'm wondering is if Dany and Viserys actually stayed at the Sealord's Palace. If trees only grow in the courtyards of the mighty...well the Sealord is pretty mighty. Viserys had this notion that hired knives were always following them around. If they had been residing at the Sealord's Palance when the Sealord died, they would have seen a lot of fighting because it's said that knives come out during these times.

Yeah i think that might be it. GRRM is trying to tell us that even in Dany's most humble childhood memories, she was living a life of privilege. Her house with the red door was a house where people could aford to grow fruit on an island that, for the most part, has no trees. She and viserys knew poverty, but only poverty as a king sees it. Not the life of the comon folk tha Aegon or Arya have been exposed to.

[The Mother of The Others]

Whoa, this is like CSI: Home & Garden Channel. So what does it all mean? Was it merely super-summer when she grew up, so Braavos could briefly support lemons (no, there's still the fresh water problem), or, as the only other option I'm willing to consider, was Daenerys' memory messed with by the FM? (Because they didn't want her to remember how they'd read her fortune using bloodmagic and then pre-programmed her to free the world's slaves for them with her dragon-might.)

Also, if Daenreys has a super-strange connection to Braavos, that sort of makes it more likely she'll take in Arya as her new roommate soon when the Braavos regime change plot comes to fruition and all these various "unconnected dots" start to connect until we see how it was all designed from the beginning. Because really, what other option is there to explain this false tree memory thing? :bs:

[TheMysteriousOne]

Yeah i think that might be it. GRRM is trying to tell us that even in Dany's most humble childhood memories, she was living a life of privilege. Her house with the red door was a house where people could aford to grow fruit on an island that, for the most part, has no trees. She and viserys knew poverty, but only poverty as a king sees it. Not the life of the comon folk tha Aegon or Arya have been exposed to.

But eventually they did get kicked out, and there lives became a struggle. Viserys had to sell their mother's crown for them to survive. They went from Free City to Free City looking for people to help them and 'champion' Viserys' cause to get back Westeros, and each time they got kicked out again.

[mindchap]

I don't really recall Dany remembering Unsullied guarding the house with the red door.

My mistake that was Illyrio.

[Ulrik1312]

I'm not trying to pick on this theory. I think there's something to the idea that Dany's memory is fallible. But I don't think that it's true that no lemon tree could ever grow in Braavos.

What I'm wondering is if Dany and Viserys actually stayed at the Sealord's Palace. If trees only grow in the courtyards of the mighty...well the Sealord is pretty mighty. Viserys had this notion that hired knives were always following them around. If they had been residing at the Sealord's Palance when the Sealord died, they would have seen a lot of fighting because it's said that knives come out during these times.

When did the Sealord die?

Is he the same that signed the marriage pack and is currently sick?

Is he the Sealord of Syrio?

[The Mother of The Others]

The red door hides behind it suppressed memories of abuse?

Or behind the door there awaits a specific revelation, something taken from her mind on purpose by a certain Braavosi capable of doing that.

The house and its lemon trees are a construct, replacement memories.

These books are so long they almost have room for all these possibilities, too.

[mindchap]

The red door hides behind it suppressed memories of abuse?

Or behind the door there awaits a specific revelation, something taken from her mind on purpose by a certain Braavosi capable of doing that.

The house and its lemon trees are a construct, replacement memories.

These books are so long they almost have room for all these possibilities, too.

Not to mention that, with all the time in between, theories are all we have.

[Abhakhazia]

Why didn't Sam just get the water from the aqueduct?

If I recall correctly, Sam sent a confused Gilly to get water, who got lost and took some from the nearest water source, which happened to be a canal.

But to the topic, I think it's just a slip by Martin. While I see that it could be some sort of psychological traumatization involved, it's probably just a slip, written by Martin and forgotten when he was building Braavos.

[juanml82]

Early on, from Dany's first chapter, all we know about Braavos is that there is a house and a lemon tree. This is repeated lots of times. Lemon tree in Braavos, lemon tree in Braavos.. Then when Braavos is introduced, GRRM goes out of his way to explain, in no uncertain terms, the canals are brackish, grass doesn't grow and that there are no trees around. Also having previously described why Dorne is able to grow lemon trees - again canals, but this time freshwater. Why did he describe the canals and lemon trees in Dorne? Does he do the same with any other trees?

You think this is a continuity error? C'mon.

I wouldn't think it, if Arya and Sam's chapters in Braavos were written a year or two after GRRM first wrote about that lemon tree. But they where written, what? Ten years later?

Yes, there is room for another Jeyne's Hips mistake here.

[Angmar]

Maybe the tree was growing in a pot?

[scorpionspupil]

Maybe Danaerys is the fake

[The Mother of The Others]

Yesssssss. Fake. The reason she's been given false childhood memories is............. she had no childhood. She's a dragon.