[book spoilers]What your non-reader friends/family thought and their predictions.

[Theda Baratheon]

My friend hates Sansa....says to me "is this girl for real, seriously? is she this big of an idiot?" We watched the last two episodes together and interestingly, she doesn't trust Talisa. She said, "Who is she writing letters to? I don't trust her." Out of everyone I know, by far she is the most into sappy and cliche romance stories, and even she doesn't care for the Talisa/Robb romance. She thinks it's not going to last long because the girl just came out of nowhere and "doesn't trust her." She says it's her gut instinct. I wonder what makes an Unsullied feel that way about Talisa?

She's such a badly written, poor cliche choice of a character.

[go joff go]

I see people go crazy when and berate the show when asking a non-reader who is X. and they don't know.. but that is really misleading as people just don't know the names anyway. If you said who is the starks kids mom they would know. Stop trying so hard to criticize the show

[bobbybuilderton]

I see people go crazy when and berate the show when asking a non-reader who is X. and they don't know.. but that is really misleading as people just don't know the names anyway. If you said who is the starks kids mom they would know. Stop trying so hard to criticize the show

That's exactly what I was thinking. My friend is almost done with season 1 and I asked her "what do you think of Tyrion?" and she said "Who is that?"

I was like

...

Plenty of viewers know characters by their faces, not their names, unfortunately.

[ugashep]

Not to mention that he directly caused several people to burn to death and drown.

That's rich, it's not like those people were just minding their own business, they were violently assaulting the city, would have put Tyrion's head on a spike, and raped and killed thousands for sport.

[franko99]

this is the biggest problem with how the show has handled robb, no body cares about him so the red wedding won't be as horrible as it was in the books, but maybe i am wrong.

also i lold at theon and lannisters

I think so too. My sister really, really doesn't care about neiter Robb or Jon. She does understand Jon is important because he's in the north and zombies are coming, but doesn't care about the character himself. And she think Robb is a waste of time, those minutes should be better used with Dany or Arya. She also think Sansa is an idiot (and she was really surprised when I told her she was one of my favorites). Appart from Arya the show didn't handle the Stark's storylines very well, and even then, she's not s good as book Arya IMO

ETA: chating with someone in FB who read the books, actually told me "I can't wait for the RW, no more Robb/Talisa and their time will be given to Roose Bolton". Is hard to admit it, but I agree, I will glady take more Roose and less TVRobb and Talisa

[bobbybuilderton]

That's rich, it's not like those people were just minding their own business, they were violently assaulting the city, would have put Tyrion's head on a spike, and raped and killed thousands for sport.

The point isn't that he killed them. That is not what I was saying made him capable of fucked up stuff. It's the fact that they burned alive or drowned. Both of which are probably pretty unpleasant and terrifying.

[ugashep]

The point isn't that he killed them. That is not what I was saying made him capable of fucked up stuff. It's the fact that they burned alive or drowned. Both of which are probably pretty unpleasant and terrifying.

Sure but if someone is attacking you with malice aforethought you take them out anyway you can, I don't fault him for that. He did what was most efficient to improve his chances of living and that of the people of his city.

[bobbybuilderton]

Sure but if someone is attacking you with malice aforethought you take them out anyway you can, I don't fault him for that. He did what was most efficient to improve his chances of living and that of the people of his city.

It doesn't matter how justified it was. He still did it. He consciously decided to send people to slow, painful deaths. Self-preservation or not, my only point is that it indicates there is some capacity for darkness there.

[kevin1989]

My sister thinks this season is the "worst one yet" because "nothing's happened". And... she's right. Everything is building up to the next two episodes and next season. Robb's story must look very strange to her, considering that he hasn't done anything of note all season. The same is true with other characters though: nothing happened in King's Landing until this episode, Stannis has only just started doing things, Theon hasn't done anything since episode 4, Bran hasn't done anything since episode 2, Jon hasn't done anything since episode 6, and Catelyn has had hardly any screentime whatsoever. I can't help but think that spreading ASoS over two seasons was a huge mistake. Personally I would have had the RW in episode 7, PW in episode 9 and Jaime's return to KL in episode 10, but it's too late for that I guess.

She seemed to enjoy this episode though, because there weren't any Robb, Jon or Theon scenes.

Strange my friends like this season the most, because much more interesting things happen this season and it isn't scene-after-scene like season 2. It's not about what happen, it's about how it happen. This season handle things much better than the last 2 seasons (at least with season 2 because that was scene after scene and after every episode it was, nothing happen per character at all only one scene). This season takes it time, therefore scenes like the bear-pit-scene stays with us. Season 2 was more mainstream than season 1 and 3, because of the pacing.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think so too. My sister really, really doesn't care about neiter Robb or Jon. She does understand Jon is important because he's in the north and zombies are coming, but doesn't care about the character himself. And she think Robb is a waste of time, those minutes should be better used with Dany or Arya. She also think Sansa is an idiot (and she was really surprised when I told her she was one of my favorites). Appart from Arya the show didn't handle the Stark's storylines very well, and even then, she's not s good as book Arya IMO

ETA: chating with someone in FB who read the books, actually told me "I can't wait for the RW, no more Robb/Talisa and their time will be given to Roose Bolton". Is hard to admit it, but I agree, I will glady take more Roose and less TVRobb and Talisa

lol I love Roose Bolton.

But yeh, it's sad that the tragedy will be lost on a lot of people. :(

[ugashep]

It doesn't matter how justified it was. He still did it. He consciously decided to send people to slow, painful deaths. Self-preservation or not, my only point is that it indicates there is some capacity for darkness there.

I just don't consider killing someone in self defense, by whatever means dark.

[RottenAppleFossoway]

My friends mom is just sooooo happy that Arya is headed to the Twins to finally get back to her mother and brother.

Bum bum ba bum whaaaaaaaaa

[Theda Baratheon]

It doesn't matter how justified it was. He still did it. He consciously decided to send people to slow, painful deaths. Self-preservation or not, my only point is that it indicates there is some capacity for darkness there.

I agree.

Even if doing it to save himself and the city, the method of death is a horrid one. Necessary for his purposes? Yes. But don't tell me someone that actively thinks about unleashing wildfire on an army so they burn to death or drown doesn't have a capability for dark thought.

[ugashep]

I agree.

Even if doing it to save himself and the city, the method of death is a horrid one. Necessary for his purposes? Yes. But don't tell me someone that actively thinks about unleashing wildfire on an army so they burn to death or drown doesn't have a capability for dark thought.

I'm not saying that Tyrion does not have the capacity for a dark thought, everyone does, I just don't think killing anyone in self defense is dark.

[Theda Baratheon]

I'm not saying that Tyrion does not have the capacity for a dark thought, everyone does, I just don't think killing anyone in self defense is dark.

Murder and death is always dark, it is a sad and horrible thing. There is nothing 'light' about death. All war is 'dark' whereas, the soldiers just doing as they are told are just that, they are fighting in a war because they have to.

It is those devising the battles that at least must have some darkness to them knowing, even in war, their strategies are simply to kill as much of their enemies as they can. There's nothing 'nice' about that. It's not evil it's just war, but it's not a nice business.

im probs not making much sense now, it's early morning and im tired, lol

[bobbybuilderton]

I'm not saying that Tyrion does not have the capacity for a dark thought, everyone does, I just don't think killing anyone in self defense is dark.

My argument isn't what he did is dark. The argument is that willingness to go through with it, regardless of if it was justified, should be a clue in to non-readers that his heart is not as pure as they think. There are things that people would not do, even if their life was in danger. If someone comes at you with a knife and you have one too, you would stab them and be justified. But because not everyone would be able to bring themselves to do it, it is an indicator of the type of person you are deep down.

[bobbybuilderton]

I suppose in a way it boils down to if you think people are inherently good, inherently evil, or blank slates. I am in the inherently evil camp and that we have to be taught to restrain/cover up the aggression and selfishness in us. So I see the willingness to put people through death by fire and drowning when the chips are down to be a sort of gauge of how capable a person is of atrocities. How bad do things have to get before you start showing that ultimately selfish nature? And when things do get that bad, how far are you willing to go? In my previous example, maybe everyone would be able to stab the mugger, but how many people would stab the mugger and twist to make sure he stays down and doesn't come after them?

Everyone will show the self-preserving nature when it gets to the point that King's Landing was, but not everyone will be willing to go to the length of burning people alive/drowning them in the pursuit of that self-preservation. And because Tyrion would, it should (in my opinion) indicate that he's not so squeaky clean as I've seen many Unsullied believe. Because I have seen people believe he is good to the core and a saint who would never hurt a fly and sits in his chambers looking out the window sighing longingly.

[Theda Baratheon]

Whilst I don't agree humans are inherently evil from birth, I agree it takes a certain sort of person that would think of the wildfire and let alone actually use it. You're right in saying it should show people he's not exactly 'squeaky clean' as you say.

[bobbybuilderton]

Whilst I don't agree humans are inherently evil from birth, I agree it takes a certain sort of person that would think of the wildfire and let alone actually use it. You're right in saying it should show people he's not exactly 'squeaky clean' as you say.

Yeah I know that's possibly a controversial view to hold and I don't wanna bog down one of the few positive threads with existential crisis debates :P so it's the last I'll say of the topic here

[Oakenfist]

You guys who are saying the show is missing the mark with certain characters are talking to the wrong show watchers.

It seems most of you hang out with folks who need to be spoon fed details and can't figure out main character names by season 3. That isn't the shows fault.