Orell warging (Book 5 Spoilers)(TV Show 3x9 spoilers)

[starkrocks123]

BOOK 5 and TV SHOW 3x9 SPOILERS BELOW

In 3x9, Orell is stabbed with a sword by Jon. He is then shown dying with the sword in him but as he is dying he is shown warging into the Eagle above, which then attacks Jon. Was this shown by the Producers to show that you can warg into an animal while dying? Is this supposed to provide evidence that Jon Snow will warg into Ghost after getting stabbed multiple times? The producers know what happens because they were told by GRRM so do you think shows that you CAN warg while dying. Plus with all the resurrection focus with Melisandre and Thoros and Beric, it only seems like likely that Jon Snow will be resurrected by Melissandre in WOW. What do you think? your thoughts???

[Maester Tormund]

Well the Prologue of ADwD had already stated that when a warg dies their mind goes into whatever was their closest animal.

[oursisthefury69]

this happens in the first book

[Envie]

I was surprised they put that final emphasis on Orell warging into his eagle as he died - because tied together with the scene where Bran's warging abilities were revealed, viewers got a pretty big hint that warging is not only something you can do willingly but you can so even in death. This may mean nothing or it may mean a lot for the future of Jon Snow.

[Bib Fortuna]

Orell's book death was when Qhorin killed him when they took Ygritte captive. Shortly afterwards, the eagle did attack Jon as it did in the show. So this has been a part of the canon ever since book 2 was released.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

In 3x9, Orell is stabbed with a sword by Jon. He is then shown dying with the sword in him but as he is dying he is shown warging into the Eagle above, which then attacks Jon. Was this shown by the Producers to show that you can warg into an animal while dying? Is this supposed to provide evidence that Jon Snow will warg into Ghost after getting stabbed multiple times? The producers know what happens because they were told by GRRM so do you think shows that you CAN warg while dying. Plus with all the resurrection focus with Melisandre and Thoros and Beric, it only seems like likely that Jon Snow will be resurrected by Melissandre in WOW. What do you think? your thoughts???

Varamyr existed for a reason. Jon being a man then a wolf then a man (Melisandre vision) exists for a reason. On the show...Well they're never going to show Varamyr so this was a good way to show that possibility. But first they have to prove to me that they will develop Jon's warging ability before Season 5. Currently they've ignored it, and they've shown him essentially mocking a warg. So I would say yes to your question, but only if they decide to show that Jon actually has some ability beforehand and isn't just lucky to have direwolf protector (of whom we've barely seen anything).

[Woman of War]

Ahem, a stupid question:

Could Jon, or any other character, who wargs into "his" animal, slip into another human later, thus taking a human body again? Well the Warg codex would probably see this as evil but could he, or she? Or is an animal body the definitely last step for his identity? Would he be too much transformed into what his host is in order to return as human?

Probably discussed a hundred times in Heresy threads or so, sorry

[Titan]

Ahem, a stupid question:

Could Jon, or any other character, who wargs into "his" animal, slip into another human later, thus taking a human body again? Well the Warg codex would probably see this as evil but could he, or she? Or is an animal body the definitely last step for his identity? Would he be too much transformed into what his host is in order to return as human?

Probably discussed a hundred times in Heresy threads or so, sorry

No, the Varamyr chapter in ADWD shows this to be not possible, if I recall correctly. If you warg into an animal (or other person) when you die, you are stuck there. The warg ability belongs to your original body.

[Hiram McDrogon]

Could Jon, or any other character, who wargs into "his" animal, slip into another human later, thus taking a human body again? Well the Warg codex would probably see this as evil but could he, or she? Or is an animal body the definitely last step for his identity? Would he be too much transformed into what his host is in order to return as human?

I can't recall what happens in the book, but in "Rains of Castamere" Jojen makes it pretty clear that Bran's ability to warg into a human is unique, which implies no one else could warg into a human body period, whether from their human body or an animal's. That's TV canon, not book canon, mind you.

[shk12344]

BOOK 5 and TV SHOW 3x9 SPOILERS BELOW

In 3x9, Orell is stabbed with a sword by Jon. He is then shown dying with the sword in him but as he is dying he is shown warging into the Eagle above, which then attacks Jon. Was this shown by the Producers to show that you can warg into an animal while dying? Is this supposed to provide evidence that Jon Snow will warg into Ghost after getting stabbed multiple times? The producers know what happens because they were told by GRRM so do you think shows that you CAN warg while dying. Plus with all the resurrection focus with Melisandre and Thoros and Beric, it only seems like likely that Jon Snow will be resurrected by Melissandre in WOW. What do you think? your thoughts???

TV show makes it clear that Mel does not have the power to resurrect the dead and if you cross check it with a book, I don't think there is any reason to believe that Mel will obtain or seek out the ability to resurrect anyone.

As for death of Orell, I defintely agree that producers set it up in prepartion for Jon's eventual warging into Ghost when he is being assassinated.

BTW, according to the book, it is possible to warg into other human after death. Problem is, the book makes it clear that it is nearly impossible to warg into normal humans. If my memory is correct, Varamyr tried to wardg into wildling woman, but failed and had to resort back to a wolf.

[Stannis the Wight]

TV show makes it clear that Mel does not have the power to resurrect the dead and if you cross check it with a book, I don't think there is any reason to believe that Mel will obtain or seek out the ability to resurrect anyone.

As for death of Orell, I defintely agree that producers set it up in prepartion for Jon's eventual warging into Ghost when he is being assassinated.

BTW, according to the book, it is possible to warg into other human after death. Problem is, the book makes it clear that it is nearly impossible to warg into normal humans. If my memory is correct, Varamyr tried to wardg into wildling woman, but failed and had to resort back to a wolf.

Yes he did.

Varamyr existed for a reason. Jon being a man then a wolf then a man (Melisandre vision) exists for a reason. On the show...Well they're never going to show Varamyr so this was a good way to show that possibility. But first they have to prove to me that they will develop Jon's warging ability before Season 5. Currently they've ignored it, and they've shown him essentially mocking a warg. So I would say yes to your question, but only if they decide to show that Jon actually has some ability beforehand and isn't just lucky to have direwolf protector (of whom we've barely seen anything).

Nailed it.

[victim]

BTW, according to the book, it is possible to warg into other human after death. Problem is, the book makes it clear that it is nearly impossible to warg into normal humans. If my memory is correct, Varamyr tried to wardg into wildling woman, but failed and had to resort back to a wolf.

Yeah, I think their soul/mind/whatever fights back. Actually, that happened when Varamyr attempted to warg into Orell's eagle but it's probably the same concept.

[Overlord of Skagos]

I'm pretty sure in the books Robb must have warged into Grey Wind too when he was dying(only to die again as a wolf.but well...)

[Darryk]

I took that as a definite nod towards the first chapter of ADWD, and what it implies regarding Jon's fate.

[Istakhr]

I'm pretty sure in the books Robb must have warged into Grey Wind too when he was dying(only to die again as a wolf.but well...)

In the books maybe, but not in the TV show. In the show Robb was still alive when Grey Wind was killed.

[lostinwesteros]

BOOK 5 and TV SHOW 3x9 SPOILERS BELOW

In 3x9, Orell is stabbed with a sword by Jon. He is then shown dying with the sword in him but as he is dying he is shown warging into the Eagle above, which then attacks Jon. Was this shown by the Producers to show that you can warg into an animal while dying? Is this supposed to provide evidence that Jon Snow will warg into Ghost after getting stabbed multiple times? The producers know what happens because they were told by GRRM so do you think shows that you CAN warg while dying. Plus with all the resurrection focus with Melisandre and Thoros and Beric, it only seems like likely that Jon Snow will be resurrected by Melissandre in WOW. What do you think? your thoughts???

I may be taking your OP too literally, or else misunderstanding, but in the red fonted line above, are you saying that GRRM has already told the producers what happens to Jon after he is stabbed?

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I may be taking your OP too literally, or else misunderstanding, but in the red fonted line above, are you saying that GRRM has already told the producers what happens to Jon after he is stabbed?

Of course. They know who sits the iron throne at the end, if it even exists, and they know basically everything about the major characters ultimate arcs. So of course they would know if Jon is actually dead or not.

[Hiram McDrogon]

I may be taking your OP too literally, or else misunderstanding, but in the red fonted line above, are you saying that GRRM has already told the producers what happens to Jon after he is stabbed?

I think that can probably be assumed. They've had a few long talks with him about where the story is going: after all, they need to start setting things in motion, and figuring out what's important and what isn't (for example, is Robb's heir being carted around). I suspect D&D will show us Jon's resolution before GRRM does; assuming the show keeps going, they'll almost definitely be showing Dany reaching Westeros before GRRM does.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I think that can probably be assumed. They've had a few long talks with him about where the story is going: after all, they need to start setting things in motion, and figuring out what's important and what isn't (for example, is Robb's heir being carted around). I suspect D&D will show us Jon's resolution before GRRM does; assuming the show keeps going, they'll almost definitely be showing Dany reaching Westeros before GRRM does.

I just hope we can get at least tWoW before it comes out on TV. It's unfortunate because I always wanted to read the conclusion first but I don't think I could stop myself from watching the show.

[lostinwesteros]

Of course. They know who sits the iron throne at the end, if it even exists, and they know basically everything about the major characters ultimate arcs. So of course they would know if Jon is actually dead or not.

No way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even who sits the IT (or not), and what ultimately happens to all the characters?!!!?

I think that can probably be assumed. They've had a few long talks with him about where the story is going: after all, they need to start setting things in motion, and figuring out what's important and what isn't (for example, is Robb's heir being carted around). I suspect D&D will show us Jon's resolution before GRRM does; assuming the show keeps going, they'll almost definitely be showing Dany reaching Westeros before GRRM does.

I'm really upset and disillusioned....and jealous. Taking this hard, doesn't seem fair to those of us who've been following ASOIAF forever. Man...

:dunce: pout, pout, pout

I just hope we can get at least tWoW before it comes out on TV. It's unfortunate because I always wanted to read the conclusion first but I don't think I could stop myself from watching the show.

Me, too!

As it sinks in, I guess it does make sense, but cheez!