How many fighters does Victarion have?

[ColdHandsLuke]

After getting a glimpse at Barristan's chapter in TWOW, it looks like Victarion's appearance in Meereen will play a big role in the battle for that city. I'm wondering about how many men he will show up with.

When Euron Crow's Eye sent him off from the Shield Islands, he had about 100 ships. He lost some on the way and captured some others. But, what is a good estimate for how many swords he'll show up with?

I'm trying to think of how that battle will play out. If Victarion joins the fight with 10,000+ Ironborn (avg of 100 per ship), that is a big deal. If he tries to save the day with much fewer? Maybe not.

[qhorin_420_hands]

the iron islands aren't THAT big, and Euron is currently using a big bulk of the iron fleet to raid the reach, but i believe even so, since meereen also has barristan leading the attack, and the second sons seem likely tu turn their cloaks again, meereen absolutely has a shot against yunkai.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

After getting a glimpse at Barristan's chapter in TWOW, it looks like Victarion's appearance in Meereen will play a big role in the battle for that city. I'm wondering about how many men he will show up with.

When Euron Crow's Eye sent him off from the Shield Islands, he had about 100 ships. He lost some on the way and captured some others. But, what is a good estimate for how many swords he'll show up with?

I'm trying to think of how that battle will play out. If Victarion joins the fight with 10,000+ Ironborn (avg of 100 per ship), that is a big deal. If he tries to save the day with much fewer? Maybe not.

This has been discussed before and the ironborn are widely believed to be able to muster 20,000-25,000 men based upon the number of ships that they have and GRRM's statement that every great house can muster at least 20,000. The isles are small but are believed to be densely populated.

The iron fleet are larger ships made for naval warfare. Once Stannis destroyed the iron fleet during the Greyjoy Rebellion, the ironmen were done. I think that 100-150 men are a very good estimate of Victarians strength. So 10,000-15,000 men seems likely. Remember that only about half of the fleet made the journey all the way to Slaver's bay. Victarian and his men captured more ships along the way and freed the slaves to row (I don't know about fighting). So I would say 5,000-7,500 men are on hand to fight.

Lastly, remember that the armies of the Wise Masters are unskilled slave armies and sickness has set in. 7500 skilled ironmen would make an absolute difference in the battle. I would suspect that they would take out the enemy fleet first and take away any bombardment from the sea. The biggest question is the threat they pose to Barristan and his defense force. I hate to say it, but I don't think Barry will make it.

[The Holy Goat]

I think 10,000 seems like a good number for the entire Iron Fleet, but a few thousand less now since Victarion lost some ships on the way. The Iron Islands entire army would probably be 20,000+ or something like that.

[Pinkie Baelish]

This post should really have a spoiler tag.

I don't think Vic has 10000, but I would estimate he has a good 5000 or so. Didn't a lot of his fleet get blown away while sailing to Meereen?

[elanmorin]

I think he has something between 5k - 7.5 k warriors at this point. But what's more important is how they enter battle: if they flank the enemy (as we know they do) and attack from an unexpected front the enemy has no defences for, and they attack viciously and allow for no redeployment of troops to face this new threat their actual numbers mean little, even a smaller number of warriors could cause a rout. Then consider the slavers were already hard pressed to respond to Ser Barristan's attack and you see how Victarion's intervention could be the final push that breaks the slavers in a decisive manner...

[Bryrulz]

Couple extra things:

Vic has picked up several vessels on the way. In the TWoW chapter he is deploying men to these new boats and massing men in the cogs to hide them. This make methinks that the plan will be to ram the flank of the blockade with the small fast ships. A beachhead will need to be established to get most of the fighters on the ground. Maybe they r already in place when Tyrion hears that the Krackens have raised their flags?

[Knight errant]

Enough.

For what chained slaves may stand against a free man of the Iron fleet - or it's admiral?

[dcyde]

As far as I can remember, Vicky has ~60 ships in the last ADWD chapter, that would put his troops at 5-6 as some of the ships were captured and had to be garrisoned with men from the other ships. Though the battle seems very predictable now, Barristan attacks from the north, Dany with Drogon and her new Khalasar from the east and Vicky blocks the slavers retreat with his fleet.

[Ladylance]

I think his numbers are probably between 5-10k, given the number of ships he has lost probably closer to the 5k end than the 10k end. Given the sailors of the Iron fleet are going to be some of the Ironmen's most hardened soldiers, even a conservative estimate of 5000 men able to fight will make a difference to the battle.

However, there are problems. Dany is not currently in Mereen, and the leader of Mereen's forces is Ser Barristan. He may not trust the Ironborn, and may not want to fight alongside them. Also, if the Ironborn arrive after the battle begins, I'm not sure Victarion would simply ally with Mereen's forces. I see him either taking the city, whilst most of its defenders are on the battlefield (if he has enough men) or waiting to see the outcome of the battle. He wants to bind a dragon, and steel Dany as his bride. I can't see her being keen on either idea (especially as she's technically married). It's not going to be a straightforward situation with a straight forward outcome.

[King Zee]

As far as I can remember, Vicky has ~60 ships in the last ADWD chapter, that would put his troops at 5-6 as some of the ships were captured and had to be garrisoned with men from the other ships. Though the battle seems very predictable now, Barristan attacks from the north, Dany with Drogon and her new Khalasar from the east and Vicky blocks the slavers retreat with his fleet.

Dany is not part of this battle.

[aryagonnakill]

Enough.

For what chained slaves may stand against a free man of the Iron fleet - or it's admiral?

Barristan the Bold, I'd love to see the showdown.

[Juan_Snow]

Dany is not part of this battle.

Unless things go poorly for Ser Barristan and the city is under siege. Then Dany shows up with a Khalasar and Drogon to break the siege.

[chrisdaw]

I'd estimate 3-5k, finding how many of his ships left at the beginning of the voyage and how many of those he lost will get you closer to a number.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

He started out with 10,000-15,000 men. He left a couple hundreds at Moat Cailin, but we don't know how many ships were lost with all hands and how many crews just transferred ship when their own was badly damaged. But given that he crewed his prizes and intends to use them in battle, probably a lot of them. So, anything between 5,000 and 14,000 is possible, ~10,000 most likely.

Given the quality of the besiegint force and the idiotic command structure, that could be an even fight without Ser Barristan and his sortie. With him it will most likely be a massacre. Unless the Volantene fleet arrives in time.

[Nyrhex]

He started out with 10,000-15,000 men. He left a couple hundreds at Moat Cailin, but we don't know how many ships were lost with all hands and how many crews just transferred ship when their own was badly damaged. But given that he crewed his prizes and intends to use them in battle, probably a lot of them. So, anything between 5,000 and 14,000 is possible, ~10,000 most likely.

Given the quality of the besiegint force and the idiotic command structure, that could be an even fight without Ser Barristan and his sortie. With him it will most likely be a massacre. Unless the Volantene fleet arrives in time.

I realy don't get how we can say that he started with that number. Other then the fact that he lost half his fleet, he has thralls onboard (he gave some to blow the horn, and see what happens). They are also counted there, but do not fight. This diminishes the number of actuial fighters. I'd say <5,000 from the start, and less now.

[Targaryen loyalist]

100 (fighting) men, plus the slaves/servants are not too much for a single ship?

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I realy don't get how we can say that he started with that number. Other then the fact that he lost half his fleet, he has thralls onboard (he gave some to blow the horn, and see what happens). They are also counted there, but do not fight. This diminishes the number of actuial fighters. I'd say <5,000 from the start, and less now.

The Battle of Lepanto featured 28,000 soldiers to 40,000 oarsmen and sailors for the Holy League. The standard number of oars for average warships in Westeros is ~100. Even at one oarsman per oar, that would put a single galley (of the Royal, Redwyne, Manderley or Iron Fleet) at ~100 oarsmen, ~35 sailors and ~100 soldiers.

[Nyrhex]

The Battle of Lepanto featured 28,000 soldiers to 40,000 oarsmen and sailors for the Holy League. The standard number of oars for average warships in Westeros is ~100. Even at one oarsman per oar, that would put a single galley (of the Royal, Redwyne, Manderley or Iron Fleet) at ~100 oarsmen, ~35 sailors and ~100 soldiers.

That is late medieval galley. An earlier version would have less marines per oarsman. The Battle of Lepanto's ships were able to carry guns. Davos and most others fears wearing armor, for fear of drowning. This fits with war galleys of the late Roman Republic, when it was still common for marines to not wear armor. A galley of the '3' type, that is - 3 oarsmen per oar - had 200 men total crew, of which 170 were oarsmen. This is close to what the Werterosi fleets have, and the Ironborn have smaller ships. Smaller ships, even with less oarsmen per marine, is still in no way a massive 10,000 men force.

EDIT: (From, WIKI)

Three main types of longships:

Karvi - Between 6-16 rowing benches. 13 benches and up only are fit for military service. One man per oar, who is also a marine - 13-33 men per boat.

Snekkja - 20 benches - 41 men per ship. Usually the smallest used for warfare.

Skeu - 30+ benches. 61+ men per ship.

So ~6,000 men tops in ACOK. Subtract thralls. Subtract losses from insurgency all through the stay at the Neck. Subtract half the navy missing/destroyed. 3,000 men tops.

Euron has at most 1,000 ships (hundreds of longboats raiding the Reach), at most they are all Snekkja (not true, most will probably be smaller, fishing and merchant ships, captured and re-used non-combat ships, which will take away from the other ships' crews), at most 41,000 men. Subtract what I put in (), as Euron did use everything he had, and the Ironborn are not that many = Probably <15,000.

[Ser Luke.]

I would've estimated around 8,000 or so.