The Most Compelling Reason That Aegon Is Really Aegon

[mattah84]

Remember that Varys told King Robert about Dany. He was involved in her assassination attempt, frankly. And he could not possibly have known she'd survive it. He can't be said to have really been supporting her that strongly.

We do know they help Viserys and Dany with the Dothraki. But do they? Here's my theory. They wanted Viserys close for a much shadier reason (you guessed it). They were perhaps less worried about Dany.

A more out there idea? Maybe they want the Khal to fall in love with his new bride, for her to die, and for him to want revenge on the person who did it. What does fAegon need more than anything? An army. As soon as she dies, they go to him and say here's the long-lost family member of hers who will who get you the revenge you want. It's a hail-Mary, but it seems like they have a number of plans to get him as much military support as possible.

I think they had no idea what would happen with the eggs.

Agree about them not knowing the dragon eggs would hatch. Dany and Viserys were just decoys for Aegon. Then when Dany got dragons she became an asset to their cause.

I feel like Varys is really loyal to Doran Martell, and that is why he favored Aegon and kept his location secret. Cautioning Aerys not to open the gates to Tywin was to protect himself, Elia, and elia's daughter. An alliance with Varys and Dorne would explain a lot of things, most notably Doran finding out about Cerseis plot to kill Trystane.

[gwaha]

Varys could have made the switch if he really wanted to. He knows all the secret passages in and out of kings landing.

That is not all that is needed to make the switch. Varys is not not all knowing. He couldn't possibly have known beforehand that Aegon's face would be made completely unrecognizable so that a switch would even work. Not to mention he would have also needed another baby just to make the switch.

Varys had all reasons to lie to Kevan. Varys is a master of lies and a master of lies pretty much never tells the truth. It is easier to lie to someone if you never tell the truth, not even to someone who is about to die. And Varys is also not a Bond villain.

[mattah84]

That is not all that is needed to make the switch. Varys is not not all knowing. He couldn't possibly have known beforehand that Aegon's face would be made completely unrecognizable so that a switch would even work. Not to mention he would have also needed another baby just to make the switch.

Varys had all reasons to lie to Kevan. Varys is a master of lies and a master of lies pretty much never tells the truth. It is easier to lie to someone if you never tell the truth, not even to someone who is about to die. And Varys is also not a Bond villain.

Yeah but if Varys really was loyal to the Martells, he may have been able to convince Elia that it was for the best. Im just saying that after seeing Varys get Tyrion out, we know he knows the secret ways in and out of the city.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Yeah but if Varys really was loyal to the Martells, he may have been able to convince Elia that it was for the best. Im just saying that after seeing Varys get Tyrion out, we know he knows the secret ways in and out of the city.

Varys states in ACoK, I believe, that it took him years to study the intricate web of secret passageways in the Red Keep. So since he was only called to Aerys' court a few years before the Sack of King's Landing, perhaps he didn't know all the secrets of the palace's architecture that he knows now.

I guess it makes more sense that Viserys was used as a decoy. Maybe the marriage alliance between Viserys and Arienne was just a place holder and he always meant for Arienne to one day marry fAegon once Viserys was eliminated/outlived his usefulness.

[the Scorpion Knight]

If Varys can't trust his little birds, who can he trust?

not to mention illyrio

I think most people have it wrong, I think theres a smaller possibility that hes fake. The combo of Tyrion of all people calling him out , which is a pivotal spot for Tyrion, and Varys' conversation with a dying Kevan Lannister has me leaning towards him being real.

Ive once stated that GRRM may have been telling us that he is real, hey ! Tyrion and Varys confirmations, get over it.

Another factors people overlook

- his Characteral resemblance to the martells and dany

- he reminds me of jon snow in some of his actions

[Son of An Other]

This is what I want I to know most of all in this whole fAegon mystery. If they were propping up this boy to one day come and take over the Seven Kingdoms, why the hell would they aid Viserys and Dany? I know Illyrio did not intend on Viserys going to Vaes Dothrak. He wanted him to remain in Pentos because he knew the prince would just get himself into trouble among the Dothraki. So we must assume that they originally intended everything to go smoothly with Dany and for Khal Drogo to eventually pledge his khalasar to the Targaryen cause.

But this poses even more problems...Viserys would never ever take the sideline for Aegon and he certainly wouldn't allow Dany and the Dothraki to aid Aegon instead of himself. So was Illyrio eventually going to kill Viserys to get him out of the way? Didn't they originally broker a marriage deal with Viserys marrying Arienne to ensure Dorne's armies to the Targaryens? The more I think about this the more confused I get. It just seems like a lot of dead ends and roads that lead in circles.

Illyrio is clever enough to manipulate Viserys into thinking that he (Viserys) needed to go with Dany to Vaes Dothrak for any number of reasons. Just look at the way he talks to him right before Dany and Drogo meet: "Kings lack the caution of common men." Illyrio and Varys wanted Viserys to go out and get himself killed through his arrogance and stupidity. You can then also make the connection that by marrying Dany to Drogo she would also be out of their hair (and plans) as well. No Dothraki had ever crossed the Narrow Sea before, and it was reasonable to assume that Dany would have no hope of influencing Drogo to take his khalasar and head west. Aegon and JC were their main play all along.

[Son of An Other]

Yeah but if Varys really was loyal to the Martells, he may have been able to convince Elia that it was for the best. Im just saying that after seeing Varys get Tyrion out, we know he knows the secret ways in and out of the city.

If we accept as true what was stated earlier in this thread, that Varys always speaks the truth, though hidden amongst ambiguities and ommissions, then we must believe that he is loyal to the realm and the realm only. The question then becomes, what is the realm? I think once that is figured out (proabably not until the very end of the series) then we will know all there is to know about the character of Varys.

[JLE]

More importantly, he is someone who has grown up to regard Illyrio and Connington as mentors, and thus can be controlled by them.

To say that power resides where people believe it does, is only true up to a point: as often as not, real power does not reside with the person sitting on the chair, but the person standing behind them whispering in their ear. Varys, Illyrio and Littlefinger have no hope of holding any actual throne of their own (and I think Littlefinger's raising of position to be a Lord Paramount , of the Riverlands through Harrenhal - not to mention Lord Protector of the Vale through Sweetrobin and "Alayne" - will make him too publicly visible, and thus ruin him, and he's due for a fall very shortly). So, to rule a kingdom, they need a pliable king. Someone who has learned for ages, preferably since childhood, to think of them as the person to be listened to. Someone with enough "legitimacy", or who can seem to have enough, that the public will accept them: a kid from the streets wouldn't do, but a real Targaryen or a Blackfyre would do just fine. Whether he's the real Aegon, or a Blackfyre, or indeed whether he's a descendant of one of Maekar's other grandchildren, such as Prince Daeron's feeble-witted daughter or Aerion Brightflame's discredited son, he would do.

A strong, adult king like Stannis - or even a strong, adult Hand and Regent such as Tywin, or such as Ned would have become if he had had even a few more months - would be ruinous to the lot of them.

[Myvince]

I am not convince if Aegon is the real thing.... I could be wrong knowing GRRM.

[The Idiots Lantern]

What Varys actually said to dying Kevan:

"Doubt, division, and mistrust will eat the very ground beneath your boy king, whilst Aegon raises his banner above Storm's End and the lords of the realm gather around him."

"Aegon?" For a moment he did not understand. Then he remembered. A babe swaddled in a crimson cloak, the cloth stained with his blood and brains. "Dead. He's dead."

"No." The eunuch's voice seemed deeper. "He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several toungues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."

It's all very inspiring, to be sure. Perhaps a little too inspiring. So much so that... is this really Aegon he's describing, or the perfect IDEA of Aegon? Is this really Rheagar's son, or has Varys, tired of serving lazy, incompetent, cruel, or selfish monarchs, built himself a Prince that Should Have Been, a ruler so able and inspiring that everyone will want him to be real, and thus make him real.

[Pikachu101]

It would be so boring if Aegon is the real deal!

What I love about the idea of him being a fake but still sitting on the IT is because it shows just how powerful the GoT is in determining who is king/queen :)

But I guess he can be legitimate <_< just so there's a bittersweet ending where Elia is avenged and she wins. Thinking Anne and Elizabeth for some reason :P

But honestly how boring would it be if he actually is the son of Rhaegar and Elia?

[the Scorpion Knight]

But honestly how boring would it be if he actually is the son of Rhaegar and Elia?

Boring? just think about jaime and aegon interacting. or jon or dany or the martells

[Mithras]

Or does one of the two in the conspiracy have a special link to the boy? Is he Illyrio's son by his dead wife? Did the wife have to die because she did not want to give up her child for some political purpose? Those woman's hands in the jar at Illyrio's are hardly a loving memory but

Hand-cutting is a punishment for thieves. Perhaps Serra tried to "steal" the boy in order to prevent him pursuing this plot.

[Warrewal Halfaxe]

Maybe Varys doesn't know?

[WildBlood]

Maybe Varys doesn't know?

This made me think of Euro Trip lol

[Tobias Beecher]

His legitimacy is irrelevant. He could be a known lowborn peasant, if he manages to raise an army and conquer KL and win the throne, it is his by right of conquest. The Targs weren't granted the throne through divine intervention, so no one truly has a birthright or claim, it was dragonflame and steel that created the 7K. Aegon Targaryan/Blackfyre/Bastard surname, titles, titles.

[Tobias Beecher]

Having said that, I think he is a fake. He may sit the throne for a period, albeit a short one.

[Ser Uncle P]

It's a good argument made by the OP and others that Varys has no motivation to lie to the dying Kevan.

My theory is, Varys did switch the babies and believes that YG is the real Aegon, but has been double crossed by Ilyrio in the intervening years, who in turn switched the real baby Aegon for a baby Blackfyre/Brightflame bastard.

Who says Varys is infallible, or that Ilyrio wouldn't double cross him also?

[RainGhost]

Varys was very careful with what he said. The boy's name is clearly Aegon but that does not mean that his surname is Targaryen. And obviously he's alive, whoever he is. I think it's possible that he could be the real deal and I don't think that would be boring at all, especially if Dany is convinced he's a fake when really he's her nephew and they got to war. I also think it does matter. Maybe not to most of Westeros but it sure as hell matters to the Martells. It would be so cruel if they believed Elia's son was alive, gave their all to support him and then found out he was a fake.

[Wavey Sauce]

Varys never confirms that to full extent, you may want to go read it again

lmao at that as the "compelling reason"