DaveSnow House Stark Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 After years of abuse and marital rape, Cersei was delusional and in denial, but Jeoff was Robert's son after all... :lmao::Diabolic tutor? MTG I assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSnow House Stark Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 And Ser Ilyn Payne killed Ned technically. You can't blame Ned for his own death, he didn't commit suicide. You can't blame Robert for his stupidity in not seeing what should have been so plain. You can only blame those who actually had a direct hand in it. Joffery and Payne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 :agree: this is so true, Starks belong in the North every time they are south of the neck things seem to go awfully wrong for them.No kidding. Just look at what happened to Rickard and Brandon Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 No kidding. Just look at what happened to Rickard and Brandon Stark.Bran and Rickon never went south... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Bran and Rickon never went south...I think he meant Ned's brother and father, Brandon and Rickard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 ran and Rickon never went south...JMJ is talking about Eddard Starks' brother who was also called Brandon Stark and Lord Rickard Stark who was Eddard Starks' father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direwienerdog Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 After years of abuse and marital rape, Cersei was delusional and in denial, but Jeoff was Robert's son after all... :lmao:: yes to this. and you forgot to mention Robert calling out Lyanna name in the throes of passion. that is a sure way to get any woman to plot your demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor knows Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 It could be Joff, but the more I think about it, I think it is Robert. It was Robert who dragged him down to Hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a free shadow Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 "Honour?", thought Jaime. "Honour is a stag." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Ned killed Ned by waiting too long, turning down help, and letting his enemy know his plans.If Littlefinger had not betrayed Ned with the Gold Cloaks then the timing would not matter, turning down Renly's plan would not matter, and Joffery would never have been in a position to also betray Ned by executing him instead of sending him to the Wall.If not for Littlefinger's treachery, Ned's plan would have worked perfectly. Ned may have been "out-maneuvered" through treachery and betrayal but he certainly wasn't as stupid as many like to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 If Littlefinger had not betrayed Ned with the Gold Cloaks then the timing would not matter, turning down Renly's plan would not matter, and Joffery would never have been in a position to also betray Ned by executing him instead of sending him to the Wall.If not for Littlefinger's treachery, Ned's plan would have worked perfectly. Ned may have been "out-maneuvered" through treachery and betrayal but he certainly wasn't as stupid as many like to believe.Trusting Littlefinger was stupid. Thinking Tyrion would bet against his family was stupid. Ordering for Tyrion to be arrested because of what LF told him was stupid.Plus, LF's betrayal would mean nothing if Ned had a back-up plan. Swords protect you better than paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noSer Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think Stannis deserves more blame than he gets. If he had been in KL the transfer of power would have went smooth. The actions Ned wouldn't take to act immediately Stannis would have, and its likely, though not for sure, that Renly wouldn't have declared himself king. Much of his power stemmed from the Tyrell's trying to exploit the power vacuum. With Stannis on the IT there is no vacuum and Renly probably pledges his sword to big bro. Staying in KL would have carried risks but so did leaving. That choice didn't work out so well did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think he meant Ned's brother and father, Brandon and Rickard.JMJ is talking about Eddard Starks' brother who was also called Brandon Stark and Lord Rickard Stark who was Eddard Starks' father.I know who is Brandon and Rickard. You guys do not understood but I was answering the answer (?) he gave to the guy of "THe Starks belong to the North, everytime they go south of the neck thing..." but it's not only when they go south, Bran and Rickon never went south and ... were driven from their own home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince of the North Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Trusting Littlefinger was stupid.In my opinion, you're falling into an easy trap. You're looking at things from your perspective as a reader, not from Ned's perspective at the time. Trusting Littlefinger at the time made perfect sense. He was an old childhood friend of Catelyn's and, of course, she trusted and vouched for him. Also, Littlefinger had recently helped Ned and Catelyn with their secret meeting at the brothel in King's landing, etc. In addition, I don't believe Ned not really taking Littlefinger's telling him not to trust him seriously is to be unexpected at the time because of the aforementioned things and the fact that Littlefinger seemed, in my opinion, to be someone whom could never be taken at face value (i.e. he was always bullshitting).Thinking Tyrion would bet against his family was stupid.Why should Ned be thought to be so well-acquainted with Tyrion that he should know that he never bets against his family? Reader perspective vs. character perspective again.Ordering for Tyrion to be arrested because of what LF told him was stupid.When did Ned order Tyrion's arrest based on something Littlefinger told him? The way I read it Catelyn desperately "arrested" Tyrion because, of course, she thought he was guilty of trying to murder Bran at the time and also because she didn't want him to take word back to King's Landing that she had been there meeting with her husband. Ned only said it was done on his orders to cover for his wife after the fact. Or are you talking about something else?Plus, LF's betrayal would mean nothing if Ned had a back-up plan.Except Ned didn't have any reason at the time to believe he needed a back-up plan for the plan to buy the Gold Cloaks.Swords protect you better than paper.Absolutely! Hence, Ned's very solid plan to buy the Gold Cloaks to make up for his being outnumbered by the Lannisters in King's Landing ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 In my opinion, you're falling into an easy trap. You're looking at things from your perspective as a reader, not from Ned's perspective at the time. Trusting Littlefinger at the time made perfect sense. He was an old childhood friend of Catelyn's and, of course, she trusted and vouched for him. Also, Littlefinger had recently helped Ned and Catelyn with their secret meeting at the brothel in King's landing, etc. In addition, I don't believe Ned not really taking Littlefinger's telling him not to trust him seriously is to be unexpected at the time because of the aforementioned things and the fact that Littlefinger seemed, in my opinion, to be someone whom could never be taken at face value (i.e. he was always bullshitting).Why should Ned be thought to be so well-acquainted with Tyrion that he should know that he never bets against his family? Reader perspective vs. character perspective again.When did Ned order Tyrion's arrest based on something Littlefinger told him? The way I read it Catelyn desperately "arrested" Tyrion because, of course, she thought he was guilty of trying to murder Bran at the time and also because she didn't want him to take word back to King's Landing that she had been there meeting with her husband. Ned only said it was done on his orders to cover for his wife after the fact. Or are you talking about something else?Except Ned didn't have any reason at the time to believe he needed a back-up plan for the plan to buy the Gold Cloaks.Absolutely! Hence, Ned's very solid plan to buy the Gold Cloaks to make up for his being outnumbered by the Lannisters in King's Landing ;)Even Cat says they shouldn't have trusted LF, looking back on all of it. No matter what perspective you're looking at it from, trusting a guy who got beat up by your brother and wanted your woman is a bad idea, especially if he approaches you years later offering to help you simply because he once had a crush on your wife. Not to mention you don't go from being a nobody to Master of Coin in KL by being nice. I agree that LF has a way of tricking people with his words and appearance, but it seems to me like Ned rushed at any chance to ruin the Lannisters, no matter who the dirt was coming from.Ned of all people should know that a large and notable house such as the Lannisters would never send an assassin armed with the blade of an important member of said house.Ahhh, so he never told her to do it? My mistake. Though, in that case Cat kinda screwed him over.Oh c'mon, Janos Slynt has "traitor" written all over his face. Jokes aside, I don't see why he trusted the city watch, it isn't hard to believe that the Lannisters had them in their pockets. Especially if they murdered Jon Arryn and had more ambitious plans.He bought the Gold Cloaks - who had a good chance of already being bought, yet he turned down Renly's offer which would've given him soldiers for free. Soldiers who 100% were not Lannister lapdogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamXVI Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 i think that neds own sense of honour led to his death. however if it has to be a stag it would be robert for dying and then leaving ned in deep shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Ned of all people should know that a large and notable house such as the Lannisters would never send an assassin armed with the blade of an important member of said house.But was a Lannister.. A bastard, but Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 But was a Lannister.. A bastard, but Lannister.Except for the fact that Cat assumed it was one of Tywin's children that planned it. Not to mention she didn't even want Tyrion to have a trial, only an execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I know who is Brandon and Rickard. You guys do not understood but I was answering the answer (?) he gave to the guy of "THe Starks belong to the North, everytime they go south of the neck thing..." but it's not only when they go south, Bran and Rickon never went south and ... were driven from their own home.Brandon Stark (Ned's older brother) and Rickard Stark (Ned's father) did go south. They went to King's Landing, and Rickard got himself all choked up whilst Brandon got himself tied up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Brandon Stark (Ned's older brother) and Rickard Stark (Ned's father) did go south. They went to King's Landing, and Rickard got himself all choked up whilst Brandon got himself tied up a bit.I say once more: You do not understood.I know who they were and what they did. I'm saying that the Starks do not need to go South, to something bad happen to them, and I used Bran and Rickon as an exemple.I don't know how to be clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.