I think GRRM is trying something crazy...

[Edd fetch me the boo box]

I think he is trying to subvert expectations and tropes SO MUCH, so that when he actually decides to go through with one, it will be just as surprising as his constant subversions in the first couple of books. At this point, with the way the stories are written so far, I would be (pleasantly) surprised if Jon is not dead and takes the throne.

[Morienthar]

It's almost accepted fact here on the forums that Jon isn't dead,Though the opinions on if he will take any throne or not is divided.

[Earth 1 Andrew]

I agree! I think that George is trying to be as unpredictable as possible so that when he actually does something "predictable" it will come as a shock because most fans will think that it's not his style.

[Tyler Linn]

The other way to look at it is that Jon is actually dead. That would definitely subvert expectations. Just because Jon was a POV character doesn't mean that he isn't expendable. Hero's die in war all the time and he's already done several game changing deeds. Other characters are also physically at the wall now, so the story can carry on through their eyes. My guess is that George will keep throwing curve balls and maybe even let certain things go and not wrap up every loose end (even though this is torturous for fans who nit-pick). If everything is predictable it looses it's effect.

[Leif]

Dead - no.

Throne - no.

[Edd fetch me the boo box]

Personally, I think he is still alive, I'm more talking about the throne as a surprise for me.

Also this is just me bouncing ideas off the wall.

[Tyler Linn]

Why is everyone on this forum convinced he isn't dead or will be resurrected. I can see it. That's the thing about GRRM, he let's things go. That's part of life and writing.

[Dany Girl]

Dead - no.

Throne - no.

:agree:

[Tyler Linn]

He's a Brother of the Night's Watch above all other things. He might be alive, but taking the throne is against his character for me.

[C0bR]

Why is everyone on this forum convinced he isn't dead or will be resurrected. I can see it. That's the thing about GRRM, he let's things go. That's part of life and writing.

You can be as unconvential as it gets (of course with limits, this is not some avantgarde), but you can't just end an arc at a point in which it does not make a sense to have that arc in the story at all.

[Addam of Hull]

Why is everyone on this forum convinced he isn't dead or will be resurrected. I can see it. That's the thing about GRRM, he let's things go. That's part of life and writing.

Because:

A. Martin's outright stated Jon will find out who his mother his.

B. When Martin actually kills a character, it's done explicitly and in a manner that settles the question decisively. It's also resolved over the course of a single book.

C. There's too much foreshadowing and build-up of Jon's character to be finished right now.

D. All of the above.

[Edd fetch me the boo box]

Why is everyone on this forum convinced he isn't dead or will be resurrected. I can see it. That's the thing about GRRM, he let's things go. That's part of life and writing.

The thing that is different about Jon's "death" is that it came at the end of a book, and no one has confirmed it in other POVs. He kinda just felt the cold at the end, which can, of course, mean he died, but at the same time we know he is a warg. A cliffhanger that seems to be a death in ASOIAF hasn't happened at the end of a book yet, only between chapters within a book (Arya, RW).

[FuriousGeorge]

You can be as unconvential as it gets (of course with limits, this is not some avantgarde), but you can't just end an arc at a point in which it does not make a sense to have that arc in the story at all.

Yup - makes about as much sense as having Sandor survive on the quiet isle just so he can live out the rest of his days in peace i,e, it makes no sense whatsoever

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

I don't think GRMM will let him die, but if it was me writing the books, I would have him die and warg into Ghost. I don't like it when characters come back from the dead.

[moophasa]

I think perhaps Jon might subvert the game of thrones. Assuming R+L=J (everybody thinks this right?) and that he is actually their trueborn son and the rightful heir, I predict that he will not take the throne. He could actively reject it. Given that everybody else is trying to get power it would be an interesting thematic change.

[IRON BANK]

Jon is not dead, and yes he is one of a couple characters who could possibly sit the Irone throne. Their are only a couple characters who have been around since the beginning of the books amassing enough power to hold the Throne if they sit it and Jon is one of 3.

[RumHam]

I think it's deliberately left ambiguous but I'm willing to bet that there will at least be some "cost" of Jon's revival. Either he's stuck in Ghost or in a Beric like state where he wishes he was dead but knows he must live on to defeat the others.

[Corvinus85]

Because:

A. Martin's outright stated Jon will find out who his mother his.

B. When Martin actually kills a character, it's done explicitly and in a manner that settles the question decisively. It's also resolved over the course of a single book.

C. There's too much foreshadowing and build-up of Jon's character to be finished right now.

D. All of the above.

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Also, I don't care much about GRRM constantly trying to deceive us. He has established that no character is dead. But he did it by writing a realistic story where events unfold in a logical way. The fact that the red wedding was so shocking, for example, comes from our failure. The clues and the logic were there.

[Not Dead Just Broken]

I don't get the certainty with which people believe that Jon has somehow survived what appears to be a fairly fatal stabbing at the beginning of what looks to be an all out battle inside Castle Black. I'm not saying he is 100% irrevocably dead. I'm saying there is a ton of evidence to support the idea that he is dead. R+L=J may or may not be true. It doesn't mean Jon is automatically important to the end game. People complain that his arc isn't finished or that it would have been pointless if you stop here, I disagree.

The arc is very much a Julius Caesar arc:

• Successful military commander with experience in "barbaric" areas outside the empire takes over
  
• Brings "barbaric" people into the empire; expands the power of his position (emperor/Stannis v. Ramsay politics)
  
• Gets killed by established members of the empire who are fighting to keep the old ways
  

That's a complete arc. In terms of the narrative, Jon's purpose (in my view) is to try to bring the Wildlings and the Night's Watch together to fight the Others. He's done as much as he can reasonably do in that regard. I'm not sure why people think that Jon has a bigger destiny than that.

Even if we assume that Jon survives, he has no friends left at Castle Black. Selyse hates him. His old brothers hate him (they just finished stabbing him, don't forget). Mance has talked about how difficult it is to get Wildlings to follow anyone. Let alone the guy who a) betrayed them as a spy and b ) killed hundreds of their friends and family during the attacks on Castle Black. Melisandre is trying to figure out whether her Lord of Light, Stannis, is actually dead or not and while she has some affection for Jon, she did repeatedly warn him that he was in danger and he repeatedly ignored her. She's seen his death in the flames. If he didn't take her advice well, I think in Mel's worldview, Rhilor must want him dead. Who exactly is going to a) save him b ) protect him from the people who haven't stopped wanting him dead (the stabbing wasn't that cathartic, folks) and c) help him claim the Iron Throne or whatever destiny the forums seem to think that R+L=J implies? Shireen? Patchface? I get the "man of destiny" idea. I don't get how he gets out of his current predicament. There's no Drogon flying around that can save him. No Nymeria to pull him out of the river.

Yes, Ghost is alive (for now, although we saw how long Grey Wind lasted by himself) and Jon could survive as a wolf but if he was warging into Ghost who is sitting in his (presumably) warm(ish) chambers, why on earth would GRRM say that the last thing he feels is cold? That's not how he describes Jon's warging. We also know from Bran's flying dream that Bran sees Jon on a bed of ice, the warmth leaving his body. We know that Bran's dream is accurate. There may be a slight curve (like the Giant at Winterfell) but we are going to see Jon on a bed of ice with the last of the warmth leaving his body. Why not now?

As far as its placement within ADWD, remember that a whole bunch of Dance was excised and put into TWOW. If we take GRRM's word on it and it's about 20% of a book that's been taken out, his death would not have originally been a cliff hanger and could have played out in a much more "normal" fashion. At any rate, ADWD is by far the most cliffhanger-y of the books. There are cool reveals at the end of other books (Dragons, Lady Stoneheart) but the questions those raise are fairly open ended in terms of the plot moving forward. The immediate future is not on a knife's edge (pun fully intended). ADWD on the other hand, has a pending battle in Slaver's Bay. A pending battle at Storm's End. Jon's stabbing. Two pending trials at King's Landing and a bunch of other stuff I'm probably forgetting right now. He seems to have moved to a more suspenseful finish for this book. I personally don't mind this at all because it allows these forums to debate these things while he gets around to writing the 6th book. :)

It is theoretically possible that Qyburn could revive Kevan Lannister, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm not holding my breath for Jon Snow either.

[Morienthar]

If GRRM wanted to do something really crazy he could let Dany conquer and keep the throne.