Worst Sibling in ASOIAF

[indignant mushroom]

My point which you seemd to have missed is that Stannis did not do his duty to his King. Failing so miserably that Stannis did not even try to warn his brother while still covering his cowardly ass.

Are we reading the same series? Because I don't think you can blame Stannis for Robert's death, or the war.

And he really doesn't deserve the worst sibling award. He did, at one point, love his brothers, unlike Gregor who tried to kill his.

[Howling Mad]

Are we reading the same series? Because I don't think you can blame Stannis for Robert's death, or the war.

And he really doesn't deserve the worst sibling award. He did, at one point, love his brothers, unlike Gregor who tried to kill his.

I didn't balme the war on Stannis. I said Stannis failed his King and brother - epically failed.

[Ser Smoke-A-Lot]

I like Stannis but the man did put a hit on his brother Renly

[Dany Girl]

I didn't balme the war on Stannis. I said Stannis failed his King and brother - epically failed.

and then killed his other brother with dark magic that he couldn't even fight back against.. pretty sucky brother, but none of the Baratheons were great brothers. None compare to Gregor or Ramsey though.

[ReekLeek]

Three posts till Sansa was mentioned? Thought we'd at least make it till page 2.

I'd rank Stannis below Robert personally, what with abandoning him after Jon A. died-not including him on the Worst Siblings list but a pretty shitty one still.

In no particular order:

1. Gregor
   
   
2. Ramsay
   
   
3. Aeron Brightflame
   
   
4. Aerys II
   
   
5. Euron
   
   
6. Aegon the Unworthy
   
   
7. Daemon Blackfyre
   

Honourable mentions: Lysa, Cersei, Tyrion, Jaime, Viserys

This list is pretty spot on. I think renly was the worst baratheon brother for the position he put stannis in. But hey, I am a Stan Stan fan.

[indignant mushroom]

Stannis is the worst sibling. He knew the truth about Jaime's and Cersei's incest and kept silent knowing his brother's life was in danger. His inaction allowed Robert to be murdered and Westeros to be plunged into war. Coward? I say yes.

I didn't balme the war on Stannis. I said Stannis failed his King and brother - epically failed.

This sounds like you're blaming the war on Stannis and his lack of action, which is still blaming Stannis.

I like Stannis but the man did put a hit on his brother Renly

It wasn't confirmed in the books whether or not Stannis flat out ordered a hit, but it was implied he knew something was going to happen. Kinslaying is a great, great sin and Stannis is an honorable man.

[Howling Mad]

and then killed his other brother with dark magic that he couldn't even fight back against.. pretty sucky brother, but none of the Baratheons were great brothers. None compare to Gregor or Ramsey though.

Agreed, however the malevolence of the Mountain and the Bastard are innate. Stannis' actions toward his King and brothers are considered choices.

[Howling Mad]

This sounds like you're blaming the war on Stannis and his lack of action, which is still blaming Stannis.

Stannis' action allowed his brother the King to be murdered and the country to be plunged into war. Providing his King with the truth would have allowed his King to stay alive and wage war on the Lannisters. War was inevitable except with Robert alive the war is a just war.

[Morienthar]

Stannis' action allowed his brother the King to be murdered and the country to be plunged into war. Providing his King with the truth would have allowed his King to stay alive and wage war on the Lannisters. War was inevitable except with Robert alive the war is a just war.

No with Bob alive it would have been Lannister slaughter.

[Dany Girl]

No with Bob alive it would have been Lannister slaughter.

so Stannis really did fail the realm...

[Minsc]

Agreed, however the malevolence of the Mountain and the Bastard are innate. Stannis' actions toward his King and brothers are considered choices.

I don't think either of their actions are innate instead they are just terrible people, but that is still their choice.

[Master of Laws]

Gregor- burned his brother's face, possibly killed his sister and father.

Euron- raped/seduced his brother's wife, and possibly molested Aeron.

Ramsay- killed his half brother.

Viserys- abused and terrorized his sister.

Aerion- abused his brother.

Joffrey- possibly abused Tommen.

[Fat Mac]

We know why Stannis didn't tell Robert about the incest. Robert simply wouldn't believe him, since it would look like a power play. That's precisely why Stannis took his suspicions to Jon Arryn. And when Jon Arryn died, Stannis fled for what he believed was his life. Letters are too dangerous to send, and still, Robert might not believe him.

Hindsight is 20/20 people.

[Minsc]

We know why Stannis didn't tell Robert. Robert simply wouldn't believe him, since it would look like a power play. That's precisely why Stannis took his suspicions to Jon Arryn. And when Jon Arryn died, Stannis fled for what he believed was his life. Letters are too dangerous to send, and still, Robert might not believe him.

Hindsight is 20/20 people.

Stannis could have easily returned when Ned and Robert came back bringing with him a large contingent of armed guards from Dragonstone that outnumber the Lannister men. Then he could have freely spoken with Ned about how him and Jon Arryn had been up to.

[Whitering]

Stannis could have easily returned when Ned and Robert came back bringing with him a large contingent of armed guards from Dragonstone that outnumber the Lannister men. Then he could have freely spoken with Ned about how him and Jon Arryn had been up to.

He never even had to leave, the trip North takes longer than ships and men from Dragonstone, hell, at that point, he probably could have gotten men from the Stormlands as well.

Then seize Robert's bastards, seize the book and await your brother's return. That's the logical course, but here's the problem. Stannis doesn't really trust anyone else, and it's difficult for him to imagine anyone trusting him, though he knows himself to be trustworthy. His suspicion has eaten away at his ability. He should have known that Robert would never believe him to be capable of such subterfuge but he was so used to being denied by Robert he lost faith in his brother, though these are two different matters (Storm's End v. incest).

[indignant mushroom]

Stannis could have easily returned when Ned and Robert came back bringing with him a large contingent of armed guards from Dragonstone that outnumber the Lannister men. Then he could have freely spoken with Ned about how him and Jon Arryn had been up to.

And cause a kerfuffle? I don't think that's how Stannis plays the game.

Even if, Robert would have had the Lannisters slaughtered and Tywin would have had none of that.

[Whitering]

And cause a kerfuffle? I don't think that's how Stannis plays the game.

Even if, Robert would have had the Lannisters slaughtered and Tywin would have had none of that.

Mmmmm, I don't think Tywin would do anything just yet. Let's count the number of great houses that love the Lannisters...1, themselves.

In the great scheme of things they'd probably be okay with it. Shireen could be passed over when Stannis was dead, nobody, not even his own men would want him in charge, then you get Renly and Margery, no problem.

Tywin is not dumb enough to attack a realm that would probably support the above regime wholeheartedly.

[ab aeterno]

Look, there are really only two possible answers to this question:

Gregor Clegane or Ramsay Snow. That's really as far as you can justifiably look, IMO. No-one is worse than them.

[indignant mushroom]

Mmmmm, I don't think Tywin would do anything just yet. Let's count the number of great houses that love the Lannisters...1, themselves.

In the great scheme of things they'd probably be okay with it. Shireen could be passed over when Stannis was dead, nobody, not even his own men would want him in charge, then you get Renly and Margery, no problem.

Tywin is not dumb enough to attack a realm that would probably support the above regime wholeheartedly.

He'd pull his money, and Robert couldn't fund a war without money.

At the start of GoT, he also has 45,000 men at his command, second to the Tyrells who had no alliance with the Baratheons at the time.

Point being; Stannis still didn't cause the WoFK. If we want to play the blame game here, we need to take a look at players like LF.

He's also a bad brother, but not the worst sibling. Fearing for his life does not make him bad.

Rape and murder though, that's pretty bad.

[Whitering]

Yes,

He'd pull his money, and Robert couldn't fund a war without money.

At the start of GoT, he also has 45,000 men at his command, second to the Tyrells who had no alliance with the Baratheons at the time.

Point being; Stannis still didn't cause the WoFK. If we want to play the blame game here, we need to take a look at players like LF.

He's also a bad brother, but not the worst sibling. Fearing for his life does not make him bad.

Rape and murder though, that's pretty bad.

If Stannis hadn't fled LF's impact is minimized. And Robert has every reason to destroy has Lannister, you say he can't afford it? Nonsense, he will seize Casterly Rock and and worst have debt forgiveness as part of the surrender, at best, they just end House Lannister and give Casterly Rock to Stannis to shut him up.