From Jon Snow's perspective, does it even matter if R+L=J?

[Pikachu101]

@theguyfromtheVale you're forgetting about Aegon.

[The Wolves]

I think it would matter a lot to him but not to the point that it would bring a major change to his life. He would finally know who he mother is and why she didn't have him and other things, so yeah it would matter

[Veltigar]

How do you suggest this can be achieved? There's no system that can do that in a poor, divided by class and technologically undeveloped society like Westeros.

Let’s be honest, the system that exist now isn’t realistic either. A Kingdom the size of South-America with only Ravens to keep in touch and pass down orders isn’t exactly realistic.

Personally, I think that the current system will be preserved (although I hope that they could get rid of the hereditary aspects of Lordships just like it was originally intended). But the string of conflicts we have seen will basically act like a reset button. Many families will have died out or lose their claims (Darry, Frey, Bolton, …) which would leave a lot of opportunities for a new King/Queen to appoint people that are capable and loyal to him/her.

At the same time Westeros is tired of war. The Kingdom lies in ruins and needs to be rebuilt. This leaves open a lot of room for big changes since the Kingdoms need to be rebuilt anyways. If the new ruler is an acknowledged hero from the new War for the Dawn he’ll have even more leeway to change things.

There are a couple of changes that I think would greatly improve the ruling of Westeros and would – under a strong King/Queen – limit the likelihood of success from immoral players (like LF and Varys) or ambitious Lords (like Tywin).

For starters If I were King I would expand the Crownlands and try and repopulate certain parts of the old Crownlands that are now mostly void of people (like Crackclaw point).

The administration of the Kingdoms should also be changed. Part of the reason why LF is such a successful administrator and player is that he has the loyalty of a large part of the KL administration. And he got that loyalty by appointing capable people to the administration, regardless of birth, instead of just appointing younger sons of Lords and Knights. A new King/Queen should adopt this particular part of LF MO and perhaps even adapt it.

A recurring idea that you see here on the boards is the possibility of a standing army. That’s not a bad idea since that would make the King a lot stronger. And with a bit of luck there will be a very good basis for such a standing army at the end of the books. The remaining Unsullied for instance would be a great basis for such an army.

In fact a lot of Daenerys’ troops would be a great force to start with.

If she gets a Dothraki Khalesar across the Sea than those that survive the war could also be used as army for a King since they are used to following one man and there whole lifestyle revolves around war.

Daenerys companies of freedmen could also be of use, especially if Dany herself gets the throne (in a marriage with Jon or otherwise). The companies would remain true to the line of the woman that set them free. Another way to fortify such an army is to use expertise from the surviving members of the NW and the GC. Those two organizations are already a standing army of sorts so their expertise could be useful.

Another smart idea is a grand reform of the tax system. Like those of us who have studied history already know, the struggle between the central authority (the King) and his subjects (the nobility and the cities) to implement a tax system that provided a steady income (which enabled Kings to keep standing armies, a fleet and invest in the country’s infrastructure) was one of the biggest struggles in our history.

States were the Crown was successfully able to implement such a system came out on top in later centuries and became dominant powers in the world (+ if the Crown ever wants to repay its debts to the IB of Braavos than a better tax system should prove essential).

A new King/Queen should also do all he can to enable and promote trade.

First he should abolish all the tolls in the Kingdom (like the one the Frey use).

Secondly, he should found as many cities as possible (greater wealth will come from that mimicking that of the Free cities). For instance the North could use a city on its west coast, and if the problem with Hardhome is solved at the end of the book than a new King/Queen should found a city there. Another good place for a new city is Harrenhal. The castle is cursed so it should best be destroyed. The stones of the castle could be used to build a new city. Harrenhal lands are large and lush so it could definitely host a prosperous city. Especially because the large lake could provide the town with fish and an easy way to transfer goods.

Thirdly, although cities should have the priority I think a King should also try and repopulate the large open North (a bit like in real history German settlers were sent to populate eastern Europe/Russia in the Middle Ages) even if it’s trough small settlements and farms.

Fourthly, the other infrastructure should also be expanded. I’m talking about Canals, roads (if possible Valyrian Roads), tunnels (in the north) and perhaps an improved form of transporting messages akin to the pony express or the Mongolian system of transporting messages (again something for which the surviving Dothraki could prove useful). The speed of messages would improve and the dignitaries of the realm don’t have to rely on their Maesters as much.

Finally, if the tax system takes off than a King/Queen should create a new Bank that isn’t in foreign hands.

A King should also reform the various orders of the realm. The Maesters (especially the Archmaesters) are to influential and can’t be trusted and they should be brought to heal. The same, although in lesser extent, is true for the Faith. At the very least the Faith Militant should be disbanded.

Another thing the King should do is try and reform the marriage politics of the nobility. Instead of having the Houses marry with their peers from their own Kingdom or their overlords those Houses should be encouraged to marry into the other Kingdoms (someone from the North marrying someone from Dorne, and Iron Islander marrying a Stormlander, etc.). That would weaken the positions of the Overlords of the respective Kingdoms and it would help unify the Seven Kingdoms (a lesson taught to us by Alexander the Great). At the same time the King should probably look into the different customs in the realm. Preferably he would impose the Dornish system of inheritance on the whole country (although that’s probably unrealistic since the Dornish system is only upheld by the minority).

The King/Queen should also try to empower the common people. Perhaps by building some schools in the new cities. But the best way to do it would probably be the Standing army. In the Roman Army of old a soldier had different rights than before. He became civitates, a legal position that greatly improved his standing in society.

If the dragons are still alive (and controllable) at the end of the series than a King/Queen would be wise to research the possibility of rekindling some of Valyria’s ancient marbles like the Valyrian roads (would certainly help trade) and the production of Valyrian Steel (which would give the Kings army a considerable edge [pun intented]). Changes are high that we’ll see Valyrian Steel again of course (with Gendry’s training and all that).

Dragons would also make everything else that the King/Queen wants to do a lot easier, since a dragon circling over your head would be quite intimidating.

Of course I doubt that Martin would show us the transition period in great detail, but making a better Kingdom is certainly possible.

[Veltigar]

@theguyfromtheVale you're forgetting about Aegon.

you mean Faegon. And he'll most likely be dead by then.

[Pikachu101]

you mean Faegon. And he'll most likely be dead by then.

I know Aegon's a fake but I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that George would kill him. Knowing him he'd kill Dany instead

[The guy from the Vale]

I know Aegon's a fake but I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that George would kill him. Knowing him he'd kill Dany instead

My post assumes Dany killing fAegon (which has been foreshadowed quite heavily). Which would then, for example, turn Dorne into the Anti-Dany camp (something that is already happening, considering how Quent died...)

[Lord Ravenstark]

Do you skip his chapters?

No, I don't understand your question.

[Pikachu101]

My post assumes Dany killing fAegon (which has been foreshadowed quite heavily). Which would then, for example, turn Dorne into the Anti-Dany camp (something that is already happening, considering how Quent died...)

I'd rather Aegon killed Dany because she made the mistake of assuming Jon was the mummer's dragon. Don't ask why but I've always liked the idea of a fake getting the throne :)

[The guy from the Vale]

I'd rather Aegon killed Dany because she made the mistake of assuming Jon was the mummer's dragon. Don't ask why but I've always liked the idea of a fake getting the throne :)

It's not just the mummer's dragon; it's also Quentyn's cyvasse game against Tyrion.

[Veltigar]

It's not just the mummer's dragon; it's also Quentyn's cyvasse game against Tyrion.

+ the fact that GRRM stated that we are going to see DoD 2.0. in tWoW. Since Jon is currently dead it's a lot more likely that Faegon becomes Dany's oponent in the Dance than Jon.

[Lord Ravenstark]

+ the fact that GRRM stated that we are going to see DoD 2.0. in tWoW. Since Jon is currently dead it's a lot more likely that Faegon becomes Dany's oponent in the Dance than Jon.

I see no other reason to show another Targaryen... specially one who have a better claim than Dany.

[Burdette]

I think it would matter a great deal to Jon, and I think he would accept the Targaryen name.

All throughout the books, he constantly thinks how he is not a Stark. And from my point of view, he knows he is not a Stark (as in...he knows there is something important about his heritage). However, taking the Targ name doesnt make him ANTI-Stark. He will still think of Ned as a father, and possibly have a deeper affection towards him for what he did. But in the end, IMO, he will embrace the Targ name, but act like a Stark.

[Khal Porno]

I think he wouldn't care when he was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, but his "death" frees him of his vow, whether metaphorical or actual. It's the final nail in his disillusionment with the Night's Watch, and I suspect when he comes back he will have an entirely different perspective.

I know we're all expecting Jon to become the big hero of the story, but I think it would be interesting if he in fact becomes the antagonist in the aftermath of his betrayal, and if Azhor Ahai (along with the Red God) isn't a force for good, but for evil.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

If it matters politically, it means he will have gotten yet more plot gifts in order to bring him to the game (remember that, in story, this is a ridiculous theory).

If it matters supernaturally, it brings credence to all the "master race" crap the Targaryens like to throw around.

In short, I hope it doesn't.

[Pikachu101]

I think it would matter a great deal to Jon, and I think he would accept the Targaryen name.

I don't and I don't understand why people think he'd be willing to accept the fact that Ned isn't his father. IMO he'd rather stay in denial

[Ittiz]

Technically it can't really since he's part of the night's watch. However I think it would effect how he feels about himself, and especially Ned who raised him. Ned would no longer be the guy "who had a bastard." He would be the altruistic guy who promised his sister he'd raise her child as his own, even if it put a blight on his honor (which seemed to be one of the most important things to him).

How he'd feel about being a Targaryen I don't know, but it'd mean Maester Aemon was his Great Great Great Uncle (His father's, father's, father's, father's brother). Dani, who is younger than him, would be his aunt.

[Steve Moss II]

Come on, you can't really hold that against Jon.

A) the only one who offered was a crazy fire woman

B ) I highly doubt he thought his life was in danger

C) he has Ghost

Are we reading the same series? Jon has declined NW bodyguards (called a "tail") on at least 4 occasions. It's in the text and GRRM hit on it repeatedly so we wouldn't miss it.

He also insisted in staying in Donal Noye's ruined quarters, instead of more prestigious quarters he may have been entitled to. He even held meetings there.

There are two obvious consequences to this:

1. By rejecting the "trappings of power", Bowen Marsh, etc., saw Jon Snow, a young man, and not the LC. If he had accepted the trappings of power, Marsh and Co. would have more likely seen a LC. Someone to be obeyed and feared, even if they thought his decisions wrong. A boy is easier to oppose than a grim and unforgiving LC.

2. With bodyguards, even 1, I doubt impromptu assassination attempts that Marsh pulled would have worked. Even if they buy Jon a second, that second is the difference between a sword clearing or not clearing a scabbard, being able to flee, or rallying support.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

He will "wake the dragon" and burn down castle black.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I don't and I don't understand why people think he'd be willing to accept the fact that Ned isn't his father. IMO he'd rather stay in denial

Yea I agree, i kind of compare it to people telling Dany her father was Mad, although she is now starting to accept it.