Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Fucking hell this is actually mental. So the person who is wronged should decide the nature of the punishment? I would not think any less of Sansa if she buried LF alive given what she has been through but look at what you actually just wrote. Are from Amurica or something? Fucking savages itt seriouslyThis pretty much. This threads are disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Well, they still have the death penalty.Not every state in the United States has the death penalty, so I don't know what you're talking about, and that's usually the more conservative states. That doesn't make Americans savages, and it's offensive to state that to Americans on the board (me included). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Not every state in the United States has the death penalty, so I don't know what you're talking about, and that usually the more conservative states. That doesn't make Americans savages, and it's offensive to state that to Americans on the board (me included).It's not about Americans, it's about something that you ignore, namely that death penalty is a controversial thing at best, but to judge that a person no matter how fictional deserves to die (not because he's boring / badly wirtten, but morally) outside of court is WRONG and SICK and WRONG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_one_who_was_promised Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I think perhaps that this thread is being taken a little too seriously. I think most posters (and I include myself, here) who agree that Sansa has the "right" to kill Little Finger do not mean this in a literal sense, but more so, that we would empathise or understand her motivations (given his past conduct and her circumstances) were she to do so.Obviously, we are talking about Westerosi concepts here, not attempting to translate literary moral concepts to the real world, where I doubt there would be anyone here who would actively encourage someone to go out and commit murder or voluntary manslaughter in any set of circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 It's not about Americans, it's about something that you ignore, namely that death penalty is a controversial thing at best, but to judge that a person no matter how fictional deserves to die outside of court is WRONG and SICK and WRONG.You've brought up something completely irrelevant to what I was saying. I was not talking about the morality, legality or appropriateness of saying that someone deserves to be killed out outside of a court. I said that it was offensive and incorrect to state that Americans are savages. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 It's not about Americans, it's about something that you ignore, namely that death penalty is a controversial thing at best, but to judge that a person no matter how fictional deserves to die (not because he's boring / badly wirtten, but morally) outside of court is WRONG and SICK and WRONG.I think perhaps that this thread is being taken a little too seriously. I think most posters (and I include myself, here) who agree that Sansa has the "right" to kill Little Finger do not mean this in a literal sense, but more so, that we would empathise or understand her motivations (given his past conduct and her circumstances) were she to do so.Obviously, we are talking about Westerosi concepts here, not attempting to translate them to the real world, where I doubt there would be anyone here who would actively encourage someone to go out and commit murder or voluntary manslaughter in any set of circumstances.Yes, I would say it is exactly this. I would compare it to Tyrion's murder of his father. Of course, he didn't have the "right" to kill his father and we can recognize it as a morally wrong act, but that doesn't mean most readers are going to at least empathize or find it a fist-pumping moment in the same way. I haven't seen any torture porn fantasies on this thread, thank goodness, which would be a problem. Rather, many have posted ot the actual treatment of Sansa by LF to counter the OP and how his takedown via Sansa would be a fitting and satisfying end to his character, from a literary perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Newcastle Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 When did little finger rape Sansa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blede Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 What's wrong with what the High Sparrow did? In my opinion Cersei's done a lot worse than Littlefinger has, and deserved every minute of the walk of shame.I'd also argue that the walk of shame was good for Cersei. Her ego was dangerously out of control, and needed to be brought down a peg. Had it not happened, she would have carried on lusting for power and vengeance, but the walk of shame clearly brought her back to reality. She even manages to have a sensible conversation with Kevan afterwards.What LF did to Jeyne is about a 100x worse than the walk of shame imo.I know, it's more the reasons than the act itself that irks me. Littlefinger did what he did to gain political power. i can understand political scheming, but the High Sparrow tortured Cersei for religious bigotry and prudery (seriously, fornication ?), which is the same as no reason. Even "for fun" (like Ramsay, he deserves the Reek treatment, not the Qyburn one) is a better reason than that. Now, I'm not saying that Baelish doesn't deserve to be brought to justice, but I'd say "off with his head" like Ned, a traitor's death (I'm not saying Ned was a traitor, Stark lovers), not "bring him to Qyburn". Violence motivated by religious bigotry is one of the few things that make me click and wish for the slowest and most painful death.What about Qyburn?Not even Qyburn deserves the Qyburn treatment, he did what he did for a reason (science), and who knows, what he learned might even be useful for mankind in the future. That mitigates his case in my eyes to a mere quick death.Obviously I'm talking from a Planetos point of view, in the real world I would be satisfied enough with life inprisonment for all of them, with different types of prison for each of them (the harshest for the High Sparrow, the usual one for the others).About Cersei, even if the walk of shame was made to take down her ego (and it was not, it was top disqualify her in front of Westeros in order to take her power away) it didn't work. Remember, her last thought on her POV, when presented with Ser Robert Strong right after the walk of shame, was "Yes, oh yes", not the appropriate humble pious noises a humbled Cersei would have thought. She is still very much lusting for power and vengeance (especially vengeance right now), she only learned to be more discreet about it (that's the reason for the "sensible" conversation with Kevan). Actually, the treatment she received from the High Sparrow was what made me root for her again (well, "root" is a strong word, I merely wish she gets her revenge on him) after her actions alienated her from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay B. Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Fucking hell this is actually mental. So the person who is wronged should decide the nature of the punishment? I would not think any less of Sansa if she buried LF alive given what she has been through but look at what you actually just wrote. Are from Amurica or something? Fucking savages itt seriouslyYikes. I'm from Amurica, I'm such a savage. It's fiction, calm down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeirwoodTreeHugger Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Sure Littlefinger forced himself on Sansa, but she was asking for it! What did she expect parading around looking like Catelyn but even prettier? Clearly she's a vile temptress tease.**Sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meeraculous Third Reed Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Yes, he is to blame. How can you even dispute this? And yes, he did indirectly cause the death of Ned, and technically sexually assaulted Sansa and almost caused her death. This so-called 'Great One' (which I've only ever seen you call him) ain't so great.1. Because Jaime and Cersei are the ones more responsible than any others for the War of the Five.2. Willful ignorance and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMysteriousOne Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 1. Because Jaime and Cersei are the ones more responsible than any others for the War of the Five.There would be no War of Five Kings if Lysa didn't send Catelyn the letter and if she didn't murder Jon Arryn. Which was all LF's fault, as he was the one who told Lysa to do all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meeraculous Third Reed Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 There would be no War of Five Kings if Lysa didn't send Catelyn the letter and if she didn't murder Jon Arryn. Which was all LF's fault, as he was the one who told Lysa to do all of that.How could she send said letter if Jon Arryn didn't die as a result (machinations by the Great One or otherwise) of learning about the incest?The incest causes the war. Argue that the Great One would have found another way to do so and you'd probably be right, likewise if you argue that he helped fan the flames. However, he didn't partake in the incest that made the war happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lasarte Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I don't think it has been proved that LF made Joffrey kill Ned (altough there are hints). But he did plant the seeds for the war of the five kings by making Lysa poison her husband and then tell Cat the Lannisters had done it, and then by supporting Cersei and Joffrey instead of Ned (lets remember he had the allegiance of the City Watch, so he esencially got to decide if Stannis or Joffrey would take the Iron Throne after Robert's death). If I was a Stark and knew all the facts, I'd want him dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Absolutely no doubt that the guy I quoted meant that he thinks it is actually just that a victim of rape should be allowed to kill their attacker given that he said 'is it too extreme to suggest.....', when it is obviously not extreme an extreme suggestion within the world of ASOIAF. No doubt he will say that is not what he meant after he realises how obscene his comment was but it is pretty clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 He deserves to die for helping start a war that killed a lot of innocents just so he can advance his position. I cant wait for him to die ( Hopefully Sansa does it)This plus if LF had delivered the Goldcloaks like he was supposed too the war woulld most likely had been much shorter, the Lannisters would most likely would have been driven out of power and replaced with Stannis. Ned and Stannis with time to cooperate crush the Lannisters and Renly with help from the rest of the realm.Sansa quite deserves some payback IMO atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Meeraculous Third Reed Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 rubbish post where I misinterpreted something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kittykatknits Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I don't think it has been proved that LF made Joffrey kill Ned (altough there are hints). But he did plant the seeds for the war of the five kings by making Lysa poison her husband and then tell Cat the Lannisters had done it, and then by supporting Cersei and Joffrey instead of Ned (lets remember he had the allegiance of the City Watch, so he esencially got to decide if Stannis or Joffrey would take the Iron Throne after Robert's death). If I was a Stark and knew all the facts, I'd want him dead. There are more than hints that LF had him do it. Varys pretty much tells Tyrion the answer in Clash. The man casting a large shadow is LF, not Tyrion. Due to Tyrion's reaction to the riddle, we may not analyze it very well. But, the conversation starts with the question of how Ned got killed. Cersei and Varys didn't want him him killed while Slynt and Payne moved as if they knew the order would be coming. Slynt was in LF's pocket as we know and LF is the only remaining member of the small council left. LF is a small man casting a large shadow. Varys gave the answer, just in his typical vague way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousGeorge Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Not every state in the United States has the death penalty, so I don't know what you're talking about, and that's usually the more conservative states. That doesn't make Americans savages, and it's offensive to state that to Americans on the board (me included).Hmmm and where did I state that all Americans are savages? I just think it likely that he is from there given his sense of justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prince of Ice Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 Hmmm and where did I state that all Americans are savages? I just think it likely that he is from there given his sense of justice.Thats a bit stereotypical but whatever to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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