Reading Joe Abercrombie's The First Law for the first time. (Spoilers for Books 1-3)

[First of My Name]

I'm about halfway through LAOK now, and it's definitely my favorite book so far. The plot is more engrossing than ever.

My thoughts:

I'm loving Jezal's arc so far, and the seven day battle in the North is pretty cool too (I'm waiting for Logen to turn into the B9). I'm very curious to see how things will shape up for Glokta, and what JA will fill the next half with. Ferro hasn't really been doing anything yet, but she'll probably have something to do later.

[The BlackBear]

I'm loving Jezal's arc so far, and the seven day battle in the North is pretty cool too (I'm waiting for Logen to turn into the B9). I'm very curious to see how things will shape up for Glokta, and what JA will fill the next half with. Ferro hasn't really been doing anything yet, but she'll probably have something to do later.

Oh you summer child.

[Lord Syv Aldlark]

Really Bayaz didn't even rub me the wrong way with the war. Plus Khalul would probably have sent the Gurkish to attack him no matter what.

It was his attitude in the aftermath that really wanted someone to shove a blade in his back all sneaky like.

Also, this may have been discussed or maybe even on the wiki.. But what exactly is the B9? Is it something from the Other Side and is West's rage mode in anyway similar? I got similar feelings when reading both though West's rage-mode is a bit more tuned down. I know it's meant to be a berserker like setting but Logen also seems to survive a heck of a lot that could kill other men.

I really enjoyed Jezals transformation from book 1 to the third book.. I think that is what really got me angry at Bayaz was the way he treated Jezal who has really in the end become a decent guy trying his best.

Ferro I didn't like a lot in the beginning still a bit undecided on her in the end.

and who can dislike Glokta, one of the best written characters I feel I've read in any series.

[The BlackBear]

Really Bayaz didn't even rub me the wrong way with the war. Plus Khalul would probably have sent the Gurkish to attack him no matter what.

It was his attitude in the aftermath that really wanted someone to shove a blade in his back all sneaky like.

Also, this may have been discussed or maybe even on the wiki.. But what exactly is the B9? Is it something from the Other Side and is West's rage mode in anyway similar? I got similar feelings when reading both though West's rage-mode is a bit more tuned down. I know it's meant to be a berserker like setting but Logen also seems to survive a heck of a lot that could kill other men.

and who can dislike Glokta, one of the best written characters I feel I've read in any series.

I'm going to spoiler anyway.

I liked that Bayaz was really like that the whole way through. And that the worlds greatest powers are a backstabbing power hungry maniac and a bitter man who has good intentions but resorts to extremely unpleasant methods to win (the Eaters consume hundreds of slaves, and this is one of the laws Khalul presumably once respected.

So far (I'm halfway through the heroes so I haven't read all the Ninefingers material.) It seems like the B9 is just a extension of Ninefingers himself, it's him with all the mercy and fear removed, he is just about killing so he can focus on it entirely. Ninefingers himself isn't all that pleasant, when we meet him he's trying to sort himself out somewhat, but by the time he's going back to the North he seems to have given up on it. The B9 killed people, but Logen did all the stuff afterwards like nailing Shivers head on Bethods standard, provoking all the fights, he's the one who smashed Bethods face to a ruin then throws him from the battlements. Oner of his catchphrases is 'Can never have too many knives.'

I dislike Glokta, I just never saw the appeal, I don't even find him that funny, which is his main attraction as far as I can tell.

[Veltigar]

I'm going to spoiler anyway.

I liked that Bayaz was really like that the whole way through. And that the worlds greatest powers are a backstabbing power hungry maniac and a bitter man who has good intentions but resorts to extremely unpleasant methods to win (the Eaters consume hundreds of slaves, and this is one of the laws Khalul presumably once respected.

So far (I'm halfway through the heroes so I haven't read all the Ninefingers material.) It seems like the B9 is just a extension of Ninefingers himself, it's him with all the mercy and fear removed, he is just about killing so he can focus on it entirely. Ninefingers himself isn't all that pleasant, when we meet him he's trying to sort himself out somewhat, but by the time he's going back to the North he seems to have given up on it. The B9 killed people, but Logen did all the stuff afterwards like nailing Shivers head on Bethods standard, provoking all the fights, he's the one who smashed Bethods face to a ruin then throws him from the battlements. Oner of his catchphrases is 'Can never have too many knives.'

I dislike Glokta, I just never saw the appeal, I don't even find him that funny, which is his main attraction as far as I can tell.

I'm pretty sure that the Bloody Nine nailed the head of Shivers brother on the standard and provoked all those fights. IIRC the books mention that Logen during his campaigns with Bethod really started to lose control. The Bloody Nine was there more times then the actual Logen was there (I believe there was this comment about the order when sitting at the campfire. Which showcased that the Bloody Nine was there even at times when Logen wasn't fighting for his life).

Of course that doesn't mean that Logen is a very pleasant fellow. He's certainly not as agreeable as he appears to be, but the Bloody Nine is unpleasant on a whole other level. They are basically seperate entities sharing a body.

[Valonquar]

Regarding the B9's true nature:

I've seen this discussion in a lot of threads, with people usually arguing that the B9 is all Logen and a psychological phenomenon. I on the other hand will be disappointed if we ever learn that the B9

is not a magical phenomenon. Don't you think it's a bit big of a coincidence that Logen is both the only known character that can talk to spirits (which by the way lets him do stuff like breathe fire), AND happens to have a complex secondary personality that has given him the bloodiest reputation of all in a war-torn country?

That's without mentioning that the B9 doesn't correspond very well to real-world psychology; we know it started in his childhood, before he experienced war, and yet he always presents his family/father as good rather than abusive. The B9 also lets him ignore life-threatening wounds and extreme pain, and seems to view itself as something eternal and god-like rather than a person; utterly without hesitation or empathy or desires beyond murder and battle.

The "rules of magic" in the First Law universe isn't very defined and the spirit-world especially so; for instance Ferro is frequently said to be descended from demons, which isn't said for Logen (or Magi) even though he seems to have the same gift as Bedesh (who was 1/4 demon), i.e. talking to spirits, for genetic reasons. Either way, I think the B9 is connected to Logen's gift, and is in fact a spirit that has possessed Logen since childhood. The B9 often calls itself Death or "the Great Leveller", but I think rather than being a specific spirit with a clear identity and awareness, it is something like a collective expression of the war and suffering + martial culture that has defined the North forever. In essence, Logen is carrying the embodiment of the North in his head, and it is fucked up.

[Maithanet]

Regarding the B9's true nature:

Yeah, I have come around to the idea that the Bloody Nine must be related to the spirits Logen can talk to. It just makes the most sense. In addition, if we are going with a non-magical explanation of the Bloody Nine, it is pretty difficult to believe that he was able to essentially outmuscle Fenris the Feared towards the end of their duel.

[Goodbye World]

Yeah, I have come around to the idea that the Bloody Nine must be related to the spirits Logen can talk to. It just makes the most sense. In addition, if we are going with a non-magical explanation of the Bloody Nine, it is pretty difficult to believe that he was able to essentially outmuscle Fenris the Feared towards the end of their duel.

His strength as B9 is definitely non-human, or at least that's how I felt about all his fights beginning with the one at the end of book one.

[Bloody_Nine]

His strength as B9 is definitely non-human, or at least that's how I felt about all his fights beginning with the one at the end of book one.

I'll never forget the first B9 appearance...I read those few pages at least 3 time in a row. Loved the part when a guy slashes him from behind and the B9 thinks to himself; "doesn't matter, that just tells me where the next corpse is". Epic stuff. :-D

[The BlackBear]

Finished Heroes. Interesting ending, a few surprises but not that many really.

Loved the brief flash of Black Dow's past. Can't say I care for Calder any more than I did at the start. Gorst and Shivers are awesome, pity they didn't fight. I like that Shivers ended up with the Maker's sword. Kind of wondering where Gorst has gone, whether he went back South or North (don't spoil me if you know.) I liked Beck's arc. Craw's ending worked well too.

I'll be honest I was hoping for more Dogman. And I liked the way the battles were told, with a map of the layouts before each day, the action jumping from person to person as they were killed in turn.

So onto Red Country! Can't fucking wait, all that's between me and the book is cooking tea.

[Veltigar]

Finished Heroes. Interesting ending, a few surprises but not that many really.

Loved the brief flash of Black Dow's past. Can't say I care for Calder any more than I did at the start. Gorst and Shivers are awesome, pity they didn't fight. I like that Shivers ended up with the Maker's sword. Kind of wondering where Gorst has gone, whether he went back South or North (don't spoil me if you know.) I liked Beck's arc. Craw's ending worked well too.

I'll be honest I was hoping for more Dogman. And I liked the way the battles were told, with a map of the layouts before each day, the action jumping from person to person as they were killed in turn.

So onto Red Country! Can't fucking wait, all that's between me and the book is cooking tea.

Since you have read Heroes:

Let's all take a moment to remember Joe's most awesome character, Black Dow.

[Goodbye World]

Finished Heroes. Interesting ending, a few surprises but not that many really.

So onto Red Country! Can't fucking wait, all that's between me and the book is cooking tea.

That's weird, I couldn't read any two books in TFL series after one another, at all. Not that I didn't like the them, I just felt like I had to take a break and read something unrelated in between.

[The BlackBear]

Spoiler's for Heroes

Let's all take a moment to remember Joe's most awesome character, Black Dew.

Spoiler's for Heroes

Black Dew? Is that some type of juice drink? I was sad at his death, then how he ended up in the mass grave. He deserved better than a sucker punch in the circle.

That's weird, I couldn't read any two books in TFL series after one another, at all. Not that I didn't like the them, I just felt like I had to take a break and read something unrelated in between.

It was pretty intense I suppose, but I read the trilogy back to back too.

Spoiler's for Heroes and very slight spoilers for Red Country

As I mentioned earlier the nature of Black Dow's death, and all of Craws dozen made the whole thing quite tragic for me (which is the point.) Right now I'm just feeling sad for Logan, I'm not really sure if he was meant to be happy, and I know the B9 wasn't admirable, but I don't like the fade into obscurity and old age.

Lamb's about 50.

He seems older than that, but I suppose in a historical setting...

Hello Shivers... Oh. and Cosca, oh well.

Kind of dislike the printing press coming into production, Canons etc. But meh.

[Veltigar]

Spoiler's for Heroes

Black Dew? Is that some type of juice drink? I was sad at his death, then how he ended up in the mass grave. He deserved better than a sucker punch in the circle.

It was pretty intense I suppose, but I read the trilogy back to back too.

Spoiler's for Heroes and very slight spoilers for Red Country

As I mentioned earlier the nature of Black Dow's death, and all of Craws dozen made the whole thing quite tragic for me (which is the point.) Right now I'm just feeling sad for Logan, I'm not really sure if he was meant to be happy, and I know the B9 wasn't admirable, but I don't like the fade into obscurity and old age.

He seems older than that, but I suppose in a historical setting...

Hello Shivers... Oh. and Cosca, oh well.

Kind of dislike the printing press coming into production, Canons etc. But meh.

Stupid typo, that's what happens when you read the books translated.

But I totally agree with you. Personally, I didn't mind the mass grave. He died how he lived and all that. But the way he was killed. I was really fucking pissed.

That happens a little bit to often now a days. Mr. Abercrombie just kills of all his awesome characters from the first trilogy and replaces them by stupid characters like Monza or Calder, who pale in comparison with the awesomness of the oldtimers that they replace. And at the same time the lamer characters from the first triogy still haven't kicked the bucket (Jezal, Gorst, basically anyone who isn't a Northerner/Bayaz/Cosca).

It isn't as bad as with Raymond E. Feist (luckily the B9 world is still far better written), but it might go that way.

[Clueless Northman]

I'll never forget the first B9 appearance...I read those few pages at least 3 time in a row. Loved the part when a guy slashes him from behind and the B9 thinks to himself; "doesn't matter, that just tells me where the next corpse is". Epic stuff. :-D

Yeah. Thinking of it now, I have the feeling it's like some exterior entity is having control of his body without the drawback of actually feeling pain. Or it's just split personality - I'll see when I'll read the rest of the books.

[The BlackBear]

That happens a little bit to often now a days. Mr. Abercrombie just kills of all his awesome characters from the first trilogy and replaces them by stupid characters like Monza or Calder, who pale in comparison with the awesomness of the oldtimers that they replace. And at the same time the lamer characters from the first triogy still haven't kicked the bucket (Jezal, Gorst, basically anyone who isn't a Northerner/Bayaz/Cosca).

I think new good characters are introduced: Shivers is good (and whilst in the original Trilogy wasn't really fleshed out until BSC, I liked Monza, Calder is a shit but you don't need to like every character. I think Gorst was a great character, his internal monologues worked for me in a way that Gloktas never did. I liked Jezal but he's kind of irrelevant now. It would take a hell of a lot to kill Bayaz, he's much to much a part of the framework of the world to go.

More to the point Black Dow had served his purpose, his role was done.

[Maithanet]

Spoiler for Heroes

I had no problem at all with Black Dow's fate. Not everyone goes out in a blaze of glory. Black Dow was a pretty horrible guy. Perhaps not as bad as his reputation, but that is faint praise. Eventually, he trusted the wrong person and got stabbed in the back. These things happen, back to the mud.

I must disagree that Abercrombie is killing off all his characters in unsatisfactory fashion. Personally, I love this significant death toll of the series, the North is a dangerous place to live. How would it feel if it were still Logen, Threetrees, Grim, Dow, Dogman, and Tul all kicking ass and taking names (literally) after all they've been through? If you live by the sword, eventually you are going to get killed, whether it is an Eater in some godforsaken city, a monster that comes out of the fog, or someone you thought was your friend stabbing you when you least expect.

And while the characters that replace them are sometimes hit or miss, Monza, Shenkt, Finree, Whirrun and Wonderful were all pretty great.

[Frank Fitzpatrick]

Spoiler for Heroes

I had no problem at all with Black Dow's fate. Not everyone goes out in a blaze of glory. Black Dow was a pretty horrible guy. Perhaps not as bad as his reputation, but that is faint praise. Eventually, he trusted the wrong person and got stabbed in the back. These things happen, back to the mud.

I must disagree that Abercrombie is killing off all his characters in unsatisfactory fashion. Personally, I love this significant death toll of the series, the North is a dangerous place to live. How would it feel if it were still Logen, Threetrees, Grim, Dow, Dogman, and Tul all kicking ass and taking names (literally) after all they've been through? If you live by the sword, eventually you are going to get killed, whether it is an Eater in some godforsaken city, a monster that comes out of the fog, or someone you thought was your friend stabbing you when you least expect.

And while the characters that replace them are sometimes hit or miss, Monza, Shenkt, Finree, Whirrun and Wonderful were all pretty great.

I still haven't forgiven Joe for killing Whirrun.

[The BlackBear]

Heroes

I still haven't forgiven Joe for killing Whirrun.

Heroes

Surprised how little I cared he died, I liked the guy, but it was obvious from the get go he was doomed, so I guess I just didn't invest.

[Veltigar]

Spoiler for Heroes

I had no problem at all with Black Dow's fate. Not everyone goes out in a blaze of glory. Black Dow was a pretty horrible guy. Perhaps not as bad as his reputation, but that is faint praise. Eventually, he trusted the wrong person and got stabbed in the back. These things happen, back to the mud.

I must disagree that Abercrombie is killing off all his characters in unsatisfactory fashion. Personally, I love this significant death toll of the series, the North is a dangerous place to live. How would it feel if it were still Logen, Threetrees, Grim, Dow, Dogman, and Tul all kicking ass and taking names (literally) after all they've been through? If you live by the sword, eventually you are going to get killed, whether it is an Eater in some godforsaken city, a monster that comes out of the fog, or someone you thought was your friend stabbing you when you least expect.

And while the characters that replace them are sometimes hit or miss, Monza, Shenkt, Finree, Whirrun and Wonderful were all pretty great.

The problem is not that he kills some characters off. The problem is that the characters he uses to replace the ones he kills are bland (For what it's worth I don't think Whirrun or Faithful Capri whom I liked count since they were introduced and killed in the same book) and that the lame® characters from the original trilogy (Dan either, Vitari, Jezal, Glokta, Bremer, the Dogman, etc) are still going strong.

Comparison with Feist: SPOILERS if you haven't read him

It's a bit like with Raymond E. Feist. The boring characters (Puc and Thomas) still live after the cool ones (Arutha and Jimmy the Hand) have long kicked the bucket and they are replaced with side characters who are just boring.