Sansa's fate.

[Fifty Shades of Frey]

First post here so be gentle with me.

Given that the lives of the Stark children seem very entwined with that of their direwolves is it possible that Sansa will sacrifice herself in place of Arya (mirroring the sacrifice of Lady in place of Nymeria)?

I don't remember exactly who said it or when but I know at some point in the books (I think when Sansa sends the letters to her family naming her dad a traitor) it is mentioned that Sansa is lost because she no longer has a direwolf to protect her.

Not sure whether her remaining in King's Landing and taking the wrath of Joffrey and the Lannisters whilst Arya escaped would count as a sacrifice (albeit an unwitting one on Sansa's part) or if she will later knowingly make a sacrifice for Arya.

Thoughts?

[Mladen]

First, welcome to the forum. May you enjoy here like the rest of us.

Second, I don't think so. I doubt Martin would built Sansa's character so deeply for 5 books if she is doomed in the first place. Also, the loss of LAdy signifies setback for Sansa's warging abilities, some sort of alienation from her roots. Also, LAdy didn't sacrifice for Nymeria, she was wrongly killed.

[Lord Damian]

welcome, I think that when Sansa lost Lady, it meant that she will never return to the North again. Her identity will become something else.

[Winter's Knight]

Welcome to the forums! :grouphug: I love your username. :thumbsup:

I don't think there is much co-relation between the fates of the direwolves and their owners-otherwise Arya would be in a pack/family structure.

I do however think that there are certain parallels between Ned killing Lady and Ned not breaking off the engagement between Sansa and Joff, effectively sentencing her to a lifetime of being chained to Joffery. Effectively, he was more willing to sacrifice something important to him rather than go against Robert.

Then there is the ironic contrast between Lady quietly succumbing to Ned's dagger and Sansa actively fighting against his sudden, unexplained decision to break off the engagement.

[Tharvot]

Welcome to the forums! :grouphug: I love your username. :thumbsup:

I don't think there is much co-relation between the fates of the direwolves and their owners-otherwise Arya would be in a pack/family structure.

Maybe and maybe not. There was a pretty important speech Ned gave Arya about the pack surviving while the lone wolf dies when winter comes.

I'm not convinced any of the characters will be standing at the end of this story, but I do think Martin has more in store for Sansa than being a sacrificial character.

[Blede]

I seriously hope her King's Landing ordeal counts as the sacrifice. Especially since Lady didn't knowingly sacrifice herself for Nymeria, but was killed by Ned, and she didn't see that coming (Ned remarked how trusting she was while he was killing her), just as Sansa's ordeal was imposed on her by people she trusted (Joffrey and Cersei).

[Mladen]

Maybe and maybe not. There was a pretty important speech Ned gave Arya about the pack surviving while the lone wolf dies when winter comes.

Yes, it was important speech, and somehow when the winter came for Starks with Ned's death, and his children were all separated, they all managed to survive.

[Groat]

The death of Lady symbolizes / foreshadows the death of Sansa's chivalric view of white knights and golden princes.

[Dany Girl]

The death of Lady symbolizes / foreshadows the death of Sansa's chivalric view of white knights and golden princes.

I agree. It was a necessary evil in order to "wake up" Sansa from the dreamy world she lived it up until then. It wasn't immediate, but was the first step.

[Winter's Knight]

The death of Lady symbolizes / foreshadows the death of Sansa's chivalric view of white knights and golden princes.

I think it was symbolic of Sansa losing faith in her father actually. From her PoV, Ned's been siding with Arya ever since they left WF: he doesn't rebuke her when she wanders off during the journey south or when she refuses to have tea with the queen, when she attacks the crown prince, it's Sansa's direwolf that Ned kills while Arya is rewarded with a swordsmaster. He spends much more time talking and explaining things to Arya and it all culminates in Ned breaking off her engagement and taking her away from everything she's ever wanted-while Arya gets to keep her swordsmaster.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

welcome, I think that when Sansa lost Lady, it meant that she will never return to the North again. Her identity will become something else.

Thats what I've always said and in a good way since she is one of my favourite characters, I think it shows she is going to be a bit different then the other stark kids...... but for some reason people always attack me when I say it :stillsick:

[Northbound]

If there is one person in this series, that I am 100% sure will live to the end; it's Sansa. Her character has been slowly built up, to where she will be a major and I mean major factor. She will kill LF, i'm sure of it. In the end she will be a queen of some sort.

[TepidHands]

it all culminates in Ned breaking off her engagement and taking her away from everything she's ever wanted-while Arya gets to keep her swordsmaster.

At the end of it in AGoT, Arya lost her swordmaster, and Sansa got to keep her tall, handsome prince. I'm glad in that case Sansa got just what she deserved (though Lady didn't).

I still find her character in the first book repugnant. GRRM has labored mightily for a redemption arc for Sansa in the later books, but Grrr, I hated her at the end of AGoT.

[TheMysteriousOne]

The lone wolf dying refers to Arya, not Sansa, IMO.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

I think the death of Lady also forshadowed Sansa getting punished for crimes she didnt do since Lady was killed for no reason and Sansa was also punished in KL for no reason only because of her brother being a rebel.

[echidna]

The closer a Stark child is to their direwolf the closer they are, physically, to the North and the Old Gods realm. If Robb had got further South he may have lost his wolf too

[Kittykatknits]

I don't remember exactly who said it or when but I know at some point in the books (I think when Sansa sends the letters to her family naming her dad a traitor) it is mentioned that Sansa is lost because she no longer has a direwolf to protect her.

Bran is the one that says it. But, he assumes it was because she lost her wolf. He and Robb didn't realize that the letter was the result of Sansa being coerced by several adults (LF, Varys, and Cersei) who were telling her she needed to protect her treasonous father or that the content was largely dictated by Cersei. I would't read that much in to it.

Welcome to the forums! :grouphug: I love your username. :thumbsup:

I don't think there is much co-relation between the fates of the direwolves and their owners-otherwise Arya would be in a pack/family structure.

I do however think that there are certain parallels between Ned killing Lady and Ned not breaking off the engagement between Sansa and Joff, effectively sentencing her to a lifetime of being chained to Joffery. Effectively, he was more willing to sacrifice something important to him rather than go against Robert.

Then there is the ironic contrast between Lady quietly succumbing to Ned's dagger and Sansa actively fighting against his sudden, unexplained decision to break off the engagement.

I like this approach to it.

Thats what I've always said and in a good way since she is one of my favourite characters, I think it shows she is going to be a bit different then the other stark kids...... but for some reason people always attack me when I say it :stillsick:

Well, being different could just mean her storyline isn't going to be associated with magic, it doesn't mean she won't return North. With all the winter imagery surrounding her, I'd be very surprised if she doesn't.

[Groat]

I think it was symbolic of Sansa losing faith in her father actually. From her PoV, Ned's been siding with Arya ever since they left WF: he doesn't rebuke her when she wanders off during the journey south or when she refuses to have tea with the queen, when she attacks the crown prince, it's Sansa's direwolf that Ned kills while Arya is rewarded with a swordsmaster. He spends much more time talking and explaining things to Arya and it all culminates in Ned breaking off her engagement and taking her away from everything she's ever wanted-while Arya gets to keep her swordsmaster.

Hmm, interesting. I suppose it could be viewed that way. And when Ned broke off the engagement, Sansa essentially kills the lady inside herself for the first time, and acts more like Arya by going to Cersei. I still feel like it was very symbolic of the death of how Sansa views lords and ladies. The graceful beautiful queen Cersei is cruel to her, the golden prince Joffrey abuses her, the white knights of the KG beat her, and the only people to aid her and show her any kindness are an ugly imp and facially scarred brute who's not even a knight. It's even going further now, as Sansa becomes a "player" of the game, because she is learning the power and manipulation she is capable of, which is going even further to kill her idea of what a lady is.

[Minsc]

I'm glad in that case Sansa got just what she deserved (though Lady didn't).

So you think that because an eleven year old girl is somewhat spoiled that she deserves to be stuck in a situation where she is repeatedly physically beaten by grown men, verbally abused, emotionally abused, and threatened to be raped?

[aceluby]

I don't think she'll make it... I think her death will be part of some unintended consequences of LF's meddling, similar to how Lady's death was not due to anything she did personally.