Sansa's fate.

[Lala]

Butting in here.

I wrote the following post almost a year ago as a guess to what Sansa might do after LF. It's based upon multiple threads and conversations that were active on the time. It's a little bit crackpot but still has some textual analysis:

http://asoiaf.wester...x/#entry3470149

Kitty~ I love your theory! Veltigar's was also a good read and has many convincing parts to it.

Specifically Kitty's theory: it also makes sense when we consider that Sansa's ability to persuade and make men want to follow/fight for her is so much like Cat. And we see Cat using that ability very successfully in her encounter with Tyrion in AGoT - Tyrion uses money, but Cat is able to call on the men's sense of honor and convince them to serve her instead.

[Joyful Union]

I think Grrm might have Sansa develop in a more negative fashion under the influence of LF. I definitely think she will emancipate herself from LF, and become an important player, but I think that at the same time she will become more cruel and ruthless, perhaps becoming more of an antagonist by the end of the series.

[Lala]

I think Grrm might have Sansa develop in a more negative fashion under the influence of LF. I definitely think she will emancipate herself from LF, and become an important player, but I think that at the same time she will become more cruel and ruthless, perhaps becoming more of an antagonist by the end of the series.

That's definitely one path Sansa can walk down (though personally, I believe that foreshadowing/subtle hints/Sansa's previous character development indicate that she would spurn this path) and I see that as the primary "conflict" in Sansa's upcoming character arc. We also see Dany and Arya facing similar moral dilemmas - so perhaps a major theme of tWoW is "the choices we make defining who we are" - each of these characters can choose to either continue to tread down a dark path, or they can consciously reject it, and this decision will define the remainder of their character arc.

I don't believe Sansa, however, will be one of the characters to go over to the "dark side" - her Alayne chapters are still filled with thoughts and symbolism of Winterfell, which I think has become an anchor for the Stark children's moral compasses. More importantly, Sansa has survived KL with her sense of morality and empathy intact, which leads me to believe that she is strong enough to remain relatively untainted by LF.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Sansa will be the one to lead the Vale. At least i think so. LF is gonna go and by her hand. I wrote a post about how i see Sansa. Its in my sig if you care to know. K3's PtP link seems to be a rather similar theory. Sansa even says in her monologue once:

"If I were queen, I would make them love me." She is poised to act on her own agency and choose her own fate. She also has Chekhov's Hairnet which may be what ends LF.

"Good night...Father..."

[Joyful Union]

That's definitely one path Sansa can walk down (though personally, I believe that foreshadowing/subtle hints/Sansa's previous character development indicate that she would spurn this path) and I see that as the primary "conflict" in Sansa's upcoming character arc. We also see Dany and Arya facing similar moral dilemmas - so perhaps a major theme of tWoW is "the choices we make defining who we are" - each of these characters can choose to either continue to tread down a dark path, or they can consciously reject it, and this decision will define the remainder of their character arc.

I don't believe Sansa, however, will be one of the characters to go over to the "dark side" - her Alayne chapters are still filled with thoughts and symbolism of Winterfell, which I think has become an anchor for the Stark children's moral compasses. More importantly, Sansa has survived KL with her sense of morality and empathy intact, which leads me to believe that she is strong enough to remain relatively untainted by LF.

I see where your coming from. However, I believe moral ambiguity is such a big focus of the series, and Sansa has been largely pure and innocent for the entire series, that it seems unlikely to me that GRRM won't introduce such elements. In any case, a lot can happen in a book, and there's always that big "controversial chapter" GRRM mentioned that could have a potentially character changing effect. Or perhaps she will overcome any adversity. It may well be that Sansa emerges as the least sullied character in the books after all. But I don't think this fits tonally with much of the series so far, especially with the paths taken with the other Starks. Perhaps not an antagonist, but certainly flawed

[Lala]

I see where your coming from. However, I believe moral ambiguity is such a big focus of the series, and Sansa has been largely pure and innocent for the entire series, that it seems unlikely to me that GRRM won't introduce such elements. In any case, a lot can happen in a book, and there's always that big "controversial chapter" GRRM mentioned that could have a potentially character changing effect. Or perhaps she will overcome any adversity. It may well be that Sansa emerges as the least sullied character in the books after all. But I don't think this fits tonally with much of the series so far, especially with the paths taken with the other Starks. Perhaps not an antagonist, but certainly flawed

I think "unsullied" wouldn't be an accurate interpretation of where I see Sansa's character arc going - which is down a similar path to that of Doran from Dorne (just as I see Arya being an even more kickass Oberyn). At this point Sansa has lost most of her innocence and she is well aware of the power of "lies and Arbor gold" - I don't think she is going to shy away from using this knowledge. What I do believe is that Sansa's core morality will remain intact - her belief in honor and justice and protecting the weak - just as, even after she joined the FM, Arya's core morality also remained intact - when she is asked to assassinate the insurance broker, she justifies it with the idea that he is not protecting the weak or honoring his promises.

If I see any of the characters travelling down a dark path and committing to it in tWoW, they are definitely Tyrion and Dany.

[Joyful Union]

I think "unsullied" wouldn't be an accurate interpretation of where I see Sansa's character arc going - which is down a similar path to that of Doran from Dorne (just as I see Arya being an even more kickass Oberyn). At this point Sansa has lost most of her innocence and she is well aware of the power of "lies and Arbor gold" - I don't think she is going to shy away from using this knowledge. What I do believe is that Sansa's core morality will remain intact - her belief in honor and justice and protecting the weak - just as, even after she joined the FM, Arya's core morality also remained intact - when she is asked to assassinate the insurance broker, she justifies it with the idea that he is not protecting the weak or honoring his promises.

If I see any of the characters travelling down a dark path and committing to it in tWoW, they are definitely Tyrion and Dany.

I suppose we'll see. The coming white walker apocalypse doesn't seem like the kind of environment where one's morality will be largely uncompromised. As Lady of the Eerie she's going to have to make tough choices, and I think George would leap at the oppurtunity to have her morality stretched, to force her into uncomfortable situations.

I would say that Arya's core morality has been in dissaray for some time. The way that she self-justifies her actions smacks of denial to me, and as her actions become more questionable, I think her core morality has become more and more twisted.

Also, how could Tyrion get much darker at this point? Unless he starts eating the flesh of newborn babes, he's pretty much hit rock bottom. Though I never underestimate Martin's ability to overturn my expectations.

[Lala]

I suppose we'll see. The coming white walker apocalypse doesn't seem like the kind of environment where one's morality will be largely uncompromised. As Lady of the Eerie she's going to have to make tough choices, and I think George would leap at the oppurtunity to have her morality stretched, to force her into uncomfortable situations.

I would say that Arya's core morality has been in dissaray for some time. The way that she self-justifies her actions smacks of denial to me, and as her actions become more questionable, I think her core morality has become more and more twisted.

Also, how could Tyrion get much darker at this point? Unless he starts eating the flesh of newborn babes, he's pretty much hit rock bottom. Though I never underestimate Martin's ability to overturn my expectations.

Hm I think I'm pointing more towards the fact that they still believe whereas characters like LF/Cersei very clearly no longer believe in these "ideals" anymore.

Well I think Tyrion's dream is symbolic of the last twist his character has - one head is gleefully murdering Jaime and the other is weeping - at this point he still has feelings of love, guilt, and compassion, but it's possible for him to lose those and become completely self-serving.

[Petyr Patter]

If Lady's death symbolizes Sansa's death... boy is it taking forever to happen. The fact that Greywind managed to outlive Robb (by a little while) really throws that theory out of whack. I think that scene was mainly to show just how different Martin's fantasy narrative was from other fantasy narratives, and also to firmly define Cersei as irredeemably evil.

So, what's Sansa's grand purpose? I don't think its to become Littlefinger with tits. Among other reasons, playing the game of thrones strikes me as more destructive than waging war. It's not "win or die," its play until you die, and kill a bunch of other people along the way. That's not the fate I want for what is one of the more relateable characters. That's not to say she can't afford to become a bit more grounded and cynical, but not some Machiavellian monster.

[Southpaw89]

It would be a great disappointment for me if she ends up dying. She has been built up as a character who lives in a "fairy tale" of what the life of nobility is all about and with her fate seemingly intertwined with Littlefinger, I think she will pick up on what he is up to and end up being the person to finish him off. Her fate in my opinion is to rebuild Winterfell.

[bloodofwinterfell]

Butting in here.

I wrote the following post almost a year ago as a guess to what Sansa might do after LF. It's based upon multiple threads and conversations that were active on the time. It's a little bit crackpot but still has some textual analysis:

http://asoiaf.wester...x/#entry3470149

I don't think this is crackpot at all! :) Sansa happens to be staying at one of the few places in Westeros with an untouched army. On top of that, several of the Vale lords wanted to join Robb. That seems convenient doesn't it? I think Sansa and the Vale will play a much larger role sometime in TWOW or ADOS. If she gets the Vale's army on her side, then she will emerge as a player in the game of thrones and a great asset to the fight against the Others. If this is the case, then the question is how she'll get there - and I'm really interested to seeing how it plays out. (I personally think the beginning of TWOW/the chapters originally meant to be in ADWD are going to show her internal dilemma over continuing to follow LF or going against him.)

[TheReal_Rebel]

"....The Winds of Winter -- including a Sansa chapter that is sure to be controversial."

We know the following conflicts exist and are likely to come to the fore in WofW.

1) LF is not only out to further his ever increasing lust for power using Sansa, Robert Arryn and the Vale in his climb and yet is barely able to control his desire for Sansa herself.

2) Brienne, Jaime, the Bw/oB under Catelyn (I'm sorry, I'm calling her by her true name, we don't call Ser Bedric Dondarrion UnBedric and Catelyn always meant to kill those who wronged her ) and perhaps the BF are all looking for Sansa.

3) Sandor Clegeane is still about and if word of Petyr Baelish having a beautiful "daughter" in the Vale, might stir him to suspicion and a desire to find out for himself.

4) As Alysane, Sansa is betrothed to Harry the Heir who is Robert Arryn's heir. Sansa doesn't want to marry anyone and is not thrilled by the news. LF plans to kill Sweet Robin.

Affter re-reading Sansa's last POV chapter in AFFC, while Sansa may find sickly SR annoying, but he is her cousin and doesn't want to see him die. Also since his return Baelish is even more forward with Sansa.

I conclude that either by herself or with aide ,possibly from Mya or Randa, Sansa sees no option other than taking young Robert Arryn and fleeing the Vale. But to where? Maybe the Wall or at least hiding from Baelish within the Vale somewhere with SR.

That is, until she finally up ends all of Petyr's carefully laid plans by using her knowledge of those plans against him before a group of the Lords of the Vale who she knows hate Baelish, SR in tow. She tells them about the murder of Jon Arryn by Petyr and his instigation of the War and murder of Lysa and Pety'rs plans to murder Robert. Revealing herself as Sansa Stark, Cousin to Robert Arryn and Niece of Lysa.

What does Baelish use against Sansa to keep her fearful and compliant? Her fear of Cersei. Once both Queens are incarcerated and disgraced, Sansa has less to fear from the KL. The Vale should be a natural sanctuary for Sansa as both a Stark and a Tully. It's only Petyr who is a real threat to her there.

The fleeing and the turning of the tables might come after an attempted assault of Sansa by Petyr which she might stab him yet fail to kill him or does kill and is forced to stand trial. In either case, the truth comes out.

OR Sansa merely flees without a plan and stumbles into the BwoBs, Brienne, Jaime or Clegeane.

Fear, anger and a desire to take some control of her life and also protect what's left of her family may help propel Sansa away from her normal compliant state.

Whatdya think?

[svareff]

Where is the controversial part in that ?

[Lala]

Where is the controversial part in that ?

Sansa physically murdering LF would be considered quite controversial by a number of her fans no matter how justified it is.

[svareff]

Really ? I stand baffled.

[Lady Hana]

I also don´t think, that Ladys death is linked to Sansas future fate - more to the fate of Lady Cately in her younger days. She embodies the Stark and the Tully side: Family, Duty, Honor are their words. With Lady at her side Sansa was most of ther Time in KL a Winterfell/Stark girl. But after death and the resulting growing up, she became more and more a Tully woman,not only looking like Cat, but fulfilling her duty as Joffreys fiancee and later as a married wife to Tyrion.

She is fulfilling her fate like her mother had (being bethroded to Brandon, later marrying Ned, leaving for Winterfell etc.). There are several Textmarks in Cats POV where she is thinking about always fulfilling her duty as a daughter, wife, mother. I think it is in TCoK, sitting at Hoster Tullys bed.

[Veltigar]

Sansa physically murdering LF would be considered quite controversial by a number of her fans no matter how justified it is.

An even bigger number of fans would applaud her for killing LF. I think the controverse will be something else.

[joluoto]

I think Sansa's ultimate fate is to become

Queen of the Andals, Rhoynar and First Men, Defender of the Realm.

[aedalia]

I think Sansa has a James I & VI thing going on: bascially just chilling out in Scotland until Queen Elizabeth I dies at which time he inherits a powerhouse based on his grandmother.

Heiress apparent of Winterfell, Heiress presumptive of Riverrrun... marry Harry, become Lady of the Vale. Get preggers with a Harry baby, kill Harry (and Sweetrobbin and LF), become Protector of the Vale. Look at fAegon and Dany and say,

"Make my day."

[SaltpansResident]

An even bigger number of fans would applaud her for killing LF. I think the controverse will be something else.

As soon as I saw the word "controversy" I thought "sex scene." :ack: Let's hope I'm very wrong.