LIttlefinger: book vs show

[Lord_Tyrell]

Littlefinger is a bit more obvious in the show than in the books, but you really have to do that. You don't have the characters minds to get into who see him for what he actually is.

[A Man Has Said]

I think the difference, and the part that the books do get better than the TV show, is that while both show LF as being evil the books also show that he is very, very good at hiding his actions from everyone around him (and the reader too, for the most part.)

Consider how surprised you were when you first found out that it was Littlefinger's dagger that was used in the attack on Bran, not Joffrey's.

Then again, how surprised were you to find out that Lysa had poisoned Jon Arryn? Right up to that moment GRRM let us all think that it was one of Cersei's plots.

Then there's his shocking involvement in the brutal 'training' of Jeyne Poole, and his handing her over to the Boltons to be used as the false Arya.

Oh, he's evil all right, whether in the books or the TV series. The book just holds back much longer on the reveal.

The one reveal that the TV show made of Littlefinger's character that I really didn't like was when he shopped Ros to Joffrey to be used as a crossbow practice target.

I just can't see how that could possibly have added anything to the plot, but as it was in the season that was also filled with Theon torture porn...

.. *sigh* .. I don't even think there's a good way to finish that sentence.

[Jon of the Dead]

I think a lot comes down to the fact that LF from the books is more charismatic, charming and has awesome one-liners ("To his face we call him Lord Eunuch"), so you hate him and see how evil he is, but at the same time you admire him and enjoy his shenanigans.

In the show, all we get is Batman giving hilariously campy and obvious monologues. Anyone with that voice will sound more evil, or you know, stupid.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Show Littlefinger has had great lines, almost every scene he's in he has a witty line or jab. My major gripe is his raspy voice that came out of nowhere. But I understand why they more obviously made him a dick. And I have no idea what people are saying by that he has clearer motivation in the book. It's much more clear in the show at this point of the series, that's the whole point about making him less subtle. He's the anti-lord, the anti-Ned, and they wanted to make that more clear before his aSoS and aFfC stuff.

Plus we got a bunch of added stuff between he and Varys that I wouldn't give it up for anything, subtle or not. It's harder to remain subtle when we see the character more often and more honestly. Honestly I barely cared about LF before aSoS on my first read which I suppose is the point, and I'm not sure which I prefer at this point, but I don't hate their take on him as much as I initially thought I did.

It's one of those things where you can step back and appreciate something when you're not just thinking about comparing the mediums and how things are different.

[JeepCSC]

Finding out about Jon Arryn's death, the true death, took my breath away more than almost anything else that happened in the book. Not quite red wedding but closest to it in a series full of secrets and lies. I can't imagine any tv viewer would be surprised or shocked when it comes out. He basically puts a big neon sign that he will do anything for chaos. I think that is a shame. Tv Littlefinger also got owned by Cersei. Cersei. That is just absurd.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Viewers will be super shocked about Lysa and LF. Everyone still thinks Cersei killed Jon Arryn. It's not obvious at all.

Cersei could own Littlefinger any number of times in the books if she wanted. She just didn't because he wasnt bold enough to threaten her with the Twincest knowledge. Yet she still doesn't actually do anything since she knows he needs him, a fact that he also knows, and she's arrogant enough to think she can control him, another fact that he's aware of.

Although I didn't really like his actions either in that scene, I think they could've made him less panicky and more cocky that her threats were idle, such as maintaining that smug grin through the threat.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

Yeah, I don't see book Littlefinger as being grey at all. He's unapologetically a bad guy. It's obvious but nobody seems to take him at face value besides Stannis, which is why Littlefinger sided with Cersei, with Stannis as king he knew he was a goner.

[Crowford]

Viewers will be super shocked about Lysa and LF. Everyone still thinks Cersei killed Jon Arryn. It's not obvious at all.

Cersei could own Littlefinger any number of times in the books if she wanted. She just didn't because he wasnt bold enough to threaten her with the Twincest knowledge. Yet she still doesn't actually do anything since she knows he needs him, a fact that he also knows, and she's arrogant enough to think she can control him, another fact that he's aware of.

Although I didn't really like his actions either in that scene, I think they could've made him less panicky and more cocky that her threats were idle, such as maintaining that smug grin through the threat.

They could, but they didn't, and that's why Littlefinger looks like an idiot in this scene. Yes, Cersei backed off, but she is neither very smart nor very farsighted, and he should be very aware of this. That completely meaningless threat could as well have been his last, and all just so he could make a smug comment.

The scene with Ros when she arrives in his brothel kinda feels similar. It's a great scene because it explains pretty much everything about Petyr's modus operandi and his possible motives in a few sentences, but one can't help wondering why the hell is he telling her that? Does he tell every single person in his employ his whole life story? It seems that he just really, really likes to hear his own voice, and at times his smugness outweighs his cleverness. That's what feels really jarring to me in the adaptation.

[JeepCSC]

Viewers will be super shocked about Lysa and LF. Everyone still thinks Cersei killed Jon Arryn. It's not obvious at all.

Cersei could own Littlefinger any number of times in the books if she wanted. She just didn't because he wasnt bold enough to threaten her with the Twincest knowledge. Yet she still doesn't actually do anything since she knows he needs him, a fact that he also knows, and she's arrogant enough to think she can control him, another fact that he's aware of.

Although I didn't really like his actions either in that scene, I think they could've made him less panicky and more cocky that her threats were idle, such as maintaining that smug grin through the threat.

Why would anyone be shocked by anything Littlefinger did when pretty much the most talked about scene other than the Red Wedding was his little speech about the 'Climb'? He basically said he will do anything for chaos.

And he got owned by Cersei for being stupid. He'd never last 10 minutes in the small council if he actually talked with such little discretion.

[go joff go]

What nonsense. Book LF was hardly above throwing twincest in Cersei face. What was different was Cersei threatening LF. Book LF was so good b/c GRRM got to have his cake and eat it too. LF was so deviously sneaky that everyone both recognized him as both a great threat and someone not to pay attention to at the same time, which is GD ridiculous and makes no sense. The funny thing is that the show has managed to pull off this paradox as well just by going in a different away about it. And show LF to this point has way more motivations then book LF. What the hell is book LF motivation anyway. If anyone is a mustache twirling villain its book LF. At least show LF is driven by spite and ambition.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Why would anyone be shocked by anything Littlefinger did when pretty much the most talked about scene other than the Red Wedding was his little speech about the 'Climb'? He basically said he will do anything for chaos.

And he got owned by Cersei for being stupid. He'd never last 10 minutes in the small council if he actually talked with such little discretion.

They won't be shocked because it's out of character. They'll be shocked because the cause of death of Jon Arryn was a forgone conclusion in their minds, and then bam, LF isn't just a asshole who can't be trusted, he's a mastermind asshole who can't be trusted.

Book LF isn't really very discrete. Everyone in the books mistrusts him and knows he a sneaky bastard. But they don't know to what extent and they need him for his ability to generate coin from seemingly nowhere. It's the same thing with Varys. As much as everyone mistrusts them, they're useful. It's actually almost comical how much they're permitted in the books, especially Varys, but whatever, it's somewhat plausible if you can suspend belief enough to assume everyone in Westeros is an idiot besides those two.

Right now show viewers don't really know much more about LF than we did while reading, except that he actually has reasons for being the way he is, no matter how petty.

But if show LF sucks because of one pretty good but out of character scene with Cersei, a great scene where he tells some Northern whore he owns (that nobody would even listen to and would never outfox him) what his motivations are, and an odd rasp in his voice...Then sure, he sucks.

[JeepCSC]

I dont understand how Sansa disappears either since it seems an open secret that Littlefinger covets her. I think that is the problem. In the book we take a mysterious character (not grey) and we slowly unravel what he is capable of. In the show, he is half as clever and twice as transparent. When your big calling card is secrecy and outsmarting people, that is problematic.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I dont understand how Sansa disappears either since it seems an open secret that Littlefinger covets her. I think that is the problem. In the book we take a mysterious character (not grey) and we slowly unravel what he is capable of. In the show, he is half as clever and twice as transparent. When your big calling card is secrecy and outsmarting people, that is problematic.

Petyr is allegedly in the Vale. The audience sees him supposedly sailing away and Sansa's hopes lost. And no one other than Varys and Olenna Tyrell really know about his interest in Sansa so from a plot perspective, there's no reason for anyone to point fingers at him more reasonably than in the books.

It certainly is different in the books, and less predictable, but on the show it's just a case of them setting up something that happens in the future that you could later think about how you could've seen it coming. I can appreciate events that happen that are predictable in hindsight. I think they may have been a bit heavy handed with it this season, in that it may be too predictable, but now Petyr's involvement in the PW can actually be looked at as a ploy to get Sansa away after she refused him, as in he won't take no for an answer and resorts to regicide to give her no choice. Sort of makes that last scene with LF and Sansa much more menacing in that the whole time he's pretending to politely accept her refusal he's thinking "Well looks like I'm going to have to do something drastic here," and kills two birds with one stone with respect to the Tyrell alliance.

I also think we overestimate how much people will correctly predict since we have the benefit of hindsight. It might be a good move in the long run to setup Petyr's love for Sansa beforehand...I'll have to wait to see how they play out the Dontos thing,

[Crowford]

But if show LF sucks because of one pretty good but out of character scene with Cersei, a great scene where he tells some Northern whore he owns (that nobody would even listen to and would never outfox him) what his motivations are, and an odd rasp in his voice...Then sure, he sucks.

It's not that he told Ros specifically, it's just what this scene implies. He wasn't even asked. Ros jokingly asked him if he wanted to join, and his immediate reply was "I am saving myself for someone else", and then he unrolled his whole childhood at the drop of a hat. To someone who has presumably been in his employ for a few hours. Can she do anything useful with this information? Probably not (though, as Littlefinger well knows, prostitutes can be pretty great at information brokering). Is it a smart move to tell a random person? Not really.

As I said, this Littlefinger really, really likes to hear his own voice (raspy or not, that never bothered me). This does not necessarily foil his plans, but you would think a true master manipulator would he hampered by such vanity.

[sightofthesun]

In regards to the 'accent', I'm relieved that other people have noticed too. I wasn't sure whether I'd just imagined it suddenly changing or if it actually had gone ridiculously raspy :P

[PatrickStormborn]

Littlefinger in the show is little more than an incompetent idiot. The best part about his character in the books was that he had orchestrated so much of the War of Five Kings. In the show, that's going to look unrealistic after everything the viewers have seen, and he will certainly be less impressive than the book character.

But most importantly, he's just a very flat character on the show. And that isn't enjoyable to watch.

[LordStoneheart]

I feel like this should be in the general thread, just because it needs to be read by FingerLickers (LF fanboys) who constantly praise him.

I completely agree. And its not like all his mustache twirling Bond villainry is in front of everyone. Its only in private we see jerkass littlefinger aka the real littlefinger come out in the open. when he's alone he's super comic book villainesque. When he's addressing the crowd after BW he's not as 'confident' sounding.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Littlefinger in the show is little more than an incompetent idiot. The best part about his character in the books was that he had orchestrated so much of the War of Five Kings. In the show, that's going to look unrealistic after everything the viewers have seen, and he will certainly be less impressive than the book character.

But most importantly, he's just a very flat character on the show. And that isn't enjoyable to watch.

He's not even close to an incompetent idiot. Can you write one post without ridiculous hyperbole? He is described as being one of the most dangerous men in Westeros, and has outwitted Varys twice. He became the master of coin despite a lack of noble (enough) birth, and he's clearly a clever man. He negotiates the Tyrell and Lannister alliance for which he's rewarded a Lord's seat. He then uses that reward to gain even more power by marrying Lysa. He seems to know everything, and we haven't even seen the grand stuff he's done yet in the show.

If that's your idea of incompetence, then you must be the greatest fucking person on earth.

[PatrickStormborn]

He's not even close to an incompetent idiot. Can you write one post without ridiculous hyperbole? He is described as being one of the most dangerous men in Westeros, and has outwitted Varys twice. He became the master of coin despite a lack of noble (enough) birth, and he's clearly a clever man. He negotiates the Tyrell and Lannister alliance for which he's rewarded a Lord's seat. He then uses that reward to gain even more power by marrying Lysa. He seems to know everything, and we haven't even seen the grand stuff he's done yet in the show.

If that's your idea of incompetence, then you must be the greatest fucking person on earth.

He almost gets killed by Cersei, Tyrion clearly outwits him in the Myrcella marriage plot, Margaery outwits him about... marriages in general, he genuinely tries to woo Catelyn after he betrays Ned, he (possibly) recognises Arya Stark but lets her get away, his plan to take Sansa is foiled ... and, had he stayed around in King's Landing any longer last season, he probably would have been outwitted several times by Olenna.

He is incompetent in the show, especially as most of your counter arguments occur before the series takes place (and being on the council, at least, is because of Lysa, not just his talent). But that was my point, anyway: the show has made him look incompetent by adding moments of severe stupidity. The reveal that he orchestrated the war will feel less impressive - and, I'd argue, less credible - than it was in the books.

I can't speak for myself, but I certainly wouldn't have goaded Cersei Lannister - surrounded by guards - about her incest. So I think it's fair to say I'm less incompetent than HBO Littlefinger, the moustache-twirling 2D villain.

[Le Cygne]

I think there's some folks in the Vale who don't trust him, either. But yeah, ShowFinger is like the bastard offspring of Snidely Whiplash and Eddie Haskell.

That is very funny and very true. :)