Why did Lyanna need 3 of the Kingsguard guarding her at the ToJ?

[Pikachu101]

Man I HATE saying this, but maybe Rheagar thought Jon was a future heir and the true PTWP (ice + fire) and not Aegon. Hence the need for three KG? Who knows.

Jon was supposed to be Visenya; Aegon's third head.

The KG was placed there to insure that Visenya would be protected, especially if Rhaegar was paranoid Lyanna's family would try and take his daughter away from him.

[Ygrain]

And if Ned had 20 men? Still pointless.

Yeah, and if the whole army arrived, or the Others, or Queen Nymeria resurrected. Cut it.

A single man is always overpowered. Three men can put up a reasonable defence against a small number, and if the presumed danger was mostly some brigands or outlaws, three men would actually be able to defend the tower without engaging in man-to-man fight.

How did Joffrey get the Hound? And why does Rhaegar have any say where the KG are stationed? He is still the prince, not the king, when they are placed there.

A good point with the Hound - Joffrey is the Crown Prince, he should absolutely have a KG, or not? Apparently, it wasn't deemed necessary, the same as it was not for Aegon. Hound is a vassal of the Queen's father - now, does Rhaella have any resources that Aerys has no control over? I doubt that very much. If Rhaegar had any men to his disposal, they probably would have been stationed at Dragonstone as his domain, and if there were such as he could rely on, he would have called them to his aid long before, meaning, he had no such faithful men he could rely on.

As to why Rhaegar had a say in stationing the KG, sort it out with GRRM, he stated quite clearly that the KG obey the royal family, as well.

[C0bR]

1 was not enough to stop her from escaping the kidnapper's clutches

2 is a bad number

3 seems nice

[Little and Less]

Yeah we don't know what Rheagar's true motivations are. We are told that Rheagar was ruled by the prophesy and that he changed from a bookworm to swordsman because of the prophecy. He also thought at one time he was the PTWP, but later changed via Dany's dream that Aegon (we assume) was the PTWP.

Maybe something aligned when he met Lyanna and realized that their child could be/was the PTWP. I don't think we will ever find out by GRRM though.

Although leave it to GRRM to tie the need for 3 KG at the hole in the wall TOJ to the PTWP prophecy. Unfortunately with GRRM anything is possible.

[Little and Less]

Actually wasn't the Hound part of the KG? He just wasn't a Knight.

[Ygrain]

Actually wasn't the Hound part of the KG? He just wasn't a Knight.

That was only after Robert died and Barristan was retired.

[Nami]

Maybe. He did call Aegon TPtwP in Dany's HotUD vision, but the prophecy has been revised a few times already so we can't rule out that he changed his mind again. Didn't R think he was TPtwP at one point to?

I think he considered Aegon safe in Kings Landing, and that's why Lyanna and baby had more KG protection.

I believe Rhaegar did think Aegon was TPTWP. Everything pointed out to him, comet in the sky and all when conceived

Some people say Rhaegar reconsidered because ice and fire didn't fit Aegon because Elia was not ice, but who knows what the song of ice and fire is.

He says as if it's a song, not a person. The song might as well be the battle against the Others, not a person born from Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen).

I think I must be the only one at the moment (that I know of) who believes that Rhaegar didn't plan to have a third child with Lyanna, it happened, and surprisingly the kid is actually the TPTWP. So Rhaegar was wrong about Aegon, but he died not knowing that.

I also have a theory that maybe TPTWP is not Jon, but the son that will be born from the union of Jon and Daenerys, who are both from Aerys and Rhaella's line, which was what the woods witch told Jenny of Oldstones.

I don't think those two will be together, by the way.

[Luthien Targaryen]

I'm thinking that Rhaegar told them to stay there while he went off to fight Robert at the Trident, and had intended to return and perhaps having three really kickass knights was part of whatever his next plan was. It doesn't seem likely that the 3 KG knew that Rhaegar was dead, King's Landing had fallen, Aerys was dead as were Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon.

I imagine that the problem Rhaegar feared wasn't that Eddard Stark should turn up with a small force of motley northerners and demand to see his sister (it's quite possible that Rhaegar might have let him, invited him in for some tea and assured him that he had Lyanna's best interests at heart and that they were very much in love, etc). I expect what he feared was Robert Baratheon turning up. with or without Eddard Stark, and it might need 3 KG to take down one very angry Stormlord.

Maybe it was all part of a plot by somebody who knew that if left alone and forced to choose between his family and his king, Jaime Lannister would chose his family and kill the king, so the 3 KG were there to keep them away from King's Landing? If not it was a fairly stupid decision to leave the King, Queen and majority of the royal family under the protection of a 17 year old you don't entire trust the father of. I know that King's Landing probably had a full garrison and household knights and stuff,but with just Jaime in command? It's all a bit like Ser Hugh's unfastened gorget if you ask me. Somebody intended for Aerys to be open to attack and thus the three more experienced KG had to far away and hard to contact in a hurry.

Well, i think i've been reading too much ASOIAF, i smell conspiracy everywhere... Too bad i can't trace any of it back to Littlefinger. :smug:

[Nami]

Jon was supposed to be Visenya; Aegon's third head.

The KG was placed there to insure that Visenya would be protected, especially if Rhaegar was paranoid Lyanna's family would try and take his daughter away from him.

Actually, I asked about this once and you didn't answer but still have this version that Rhaegar wanted a Visenya.

well, why would he go after Lyanna to have a Visenya when he could have any other woman to give birth to his third planned out child?

[Ygrain]

I'm thinking that Rhaegar told them to stay there while he went off to fight Robert at the Trident, and had intended to return and perhaps having three really kickass knights was part of whatever his next plan was. It doesn't seem likely that the 3 KG knew that Rhaegar was dead, King's Landing had fallen, Aerys was dead as were Elia, Rhaenys and Aegon.

They knew. In the exchange with Ned, there is no trace of shock or surprise. When he starts talking about the Trident, they know that he is referring to the battle, not the river, they do not ask where Selmy or Martell were when Aerys was being slaughtered or why a non-KG was sent to accompany Viserys to Dragonstone; they do not ask about the fate of Rhaegar or Aegon which should have been their prime interested after learning that Aerys was dead. They know much and more :-)

[Ser Leftwich]

Rhaegar might also have been trying to protect the information about the situation at the ToJ. If Hightower, or any of the three, returned with Rhaegar to KL, they might tell Aerys what had been going on, if Aeyrs asked. (Hightower seems the most loyal to Aerys still of those three KG.)

[The Duke]

They knew. In the exchange with Ned, there is no trace of shock or surprise. When he starts talking about the Trident, they know that he is referring to the battle, not the river, they do not ask where Selmy or Martell were when Aerys was being slaughtered or why a non-KG was sent to accompany Viserys to Dragonstone; they do not ask about the fate of Rhaegar or Aegon which should have been their prime interested after learning that Aerys was dead. They know much and more :-)

Agreed.

Like I said before, it only makes sense that the 3 Kingsguard fight Ned and company when he shows up if they are defending the heir.

[zamieo]

Assuming she was carrying Rhaegar's child, she would obviously need protection, and Rhaegar probably wanted to keep their relationship a secret and the Kingsguard are more reliable in that regard than say a band of mercenaries or castle guards.

[Ygrain]

Rhaegar might also have been trying to protect the information about the situation at the ToJ. If Hightower, or any of the three, returned with Rhaegar to KL, they might tell Aerys what had been going on, if Aeyrs asked. (Hightower seems the most loyal to Aerys still of those three KG.)

Like I said before, it only makes sense that the 3 Kingsguard fight Ned and company when he shows up if they are defending the heir.

Assuming she was carrying Rhaegar's child, she would obviously need protection, and Rhaegar probably wanted to keep their relationship a secret and the Kingsguard are more reliable in that regard than say a band of mercenaries or castle guards.

Yes, yes, yes. Thank you all :-)

[aceluby]

EDIT: Stupid tab sending out an incomplete thought

[Lonin]

Agreed.

Like I said before, it only makes sense that the 3 Kingsguard fight Ned and company when he shows up if they are defending the heir.

So, had Jon turned out to be a girl. You think that they would have given her up? I don't - I think they would have fought. Ned was on the side of the rebellion - they were Targaryen to the death, they swore their lives to Aerys Targaryen and delivered.

[The Duke]

So, had Jon turned out to be a girl. You think that they would have given her up? I don't - I think they would have fought. Ned was on the side of the rebellion - they were Targaryen to the death, they swore their lives to Aerys Targaryen and delivered.

A girl could have still been the heir as Rhaegar's only surviving child. Especially if Rhaegar told them that cold was the heir regardless of its gender before he left. There has been Targaryan ruling queens.

[Jaak]

For all the conspiracy theorists - the public side of the story had SOME passable explanation for 15 years. The fact that 3 greatest knights of Westeros died defending Lyanna, not at Trident or King´s Landing or Storm´s End or Dragonstone, was immediately known to Robert and Jon Arryn. What explanation did Eddard give to Robert, Jon Arryn and the general public of Westeros? What did Barristan write in White Book?

If Lord Commander and Sword of the Morning were Absent Without Leave doing no apparently useful military mission when Rhaegaer marshalled all armies for Trident, don´t you think that Aerys and other people in position to ask like Prince Lewyn would have asked nosy questions, and Aerys was in position to countermand Rhaegaer and recall the Kingsguard.

Whereas leaving just one Kingsguard at the Tower and posting the other two at Storm´s End would have been apparently sensible deployment of forces. Besides, if the two were at Storm´s End, they were not personally encountering Aerys to be asked questions, and they could fob off Mace and all others with the line about keeping king´s secrets.

[aceluby]

Some questions I have are:

1) Where does Aerys think these KG are?

2) Why is Aerys not in control of these 3 KG that they listen to the prince over the king?

3) Why does Rhaegar think a newborn needs more protection than the heir to the throne? (assuming Aegon was alive at the time the order was given)

The only possible way I can see that this makes any sense is if Rhaegar convinced these KG to be a part of his coup to overthrow his father. At the same time Rhaegar either feels his other children don't need protection, there is a missing piece of information making Rhaegar believe Aegon is not his heir, or he gets super crazy about this prophecy and just doesn't care about them. However, if that was the case, why would the KG dump one mad king to raise another?

[Lonin]

A girl could have still been the heir as Rhaegar's only surviving child. Especially if Rhaegar told them that cold was the heir regardless of its gender before he left. There has been Targaryan ruling queens.

A girl meant that Viserys was Targaryen heir. I don't think there have been ruling Targaryen Queens. At this time Queen Rhaella Targaryen was still alive on Dragonstone