Dany's code of ethics is inconsistent with her actions in many cases

[LordStoneheart]

Another thing that strikes me as strange re-reading Dany's chapters, is her friendship with Jorah Mormont, a former slaver. She's hell bent on freeing slaves in ADWD, and generally condemns all slavers she meets...All but Jorah. The thing though is, that she had a deep affection for Jorah. So if she knows that Jorah had some redeeming qualities, why not look for these redeeming qualities in other slavers? Why kill them all, before giving them a chance to speak for themselves?

Jorah can't really be considered a slaver like the Mereenese are. Jorah had his sob story about his expensive wife with her expensive tastes. Yes, this is no excuse for selling a human life, but it's at least an excuse. The culture of Slaver's Bay is just a slaver culture and they don't feel any real remorse for it. They designed their clothes to mark themselves as slavers. Also, Jorah sold poachers... again, one's questionable existence/past doesn't excuse making them a slave, but its still better than slavery for no reason other than its their way of life.

[Greymoon]

She ordered to torture two innocent girls in front of her father so the father would confess things he possibly didn't even know.

Yes. She is evil.

And that's in the 'domestic' and less abstract plane. She's also planning a conquest war against Westeros, which would cause ten of thousands, if not more, of deaths.

Gentle persuasion work wouldn't work at all. The issue is separating the 'not so evil slavers' from the 'lets crucify slaves slavers'. She had no spy network and no real way to know what's happening in the pyramids, which also hindered her chances of stopping the slavers insurgence inside the walls of Mereen.

I expected that answer. Between the calling up Human Right's Watch and creating her own NGO...I can't say I was being very serious. However it does not make it okay to condemn a whole people, and paint all of the 'slavers' in Meereen with the same brush. I'm saying 'slavers' because I'm really not sure all of them were slavers....There must be some kind of middle ground, right? People that are neither slavers, nor slaves.

Jorah can't really be considered a slaver like the Mereenese are. Jorah had his sob story about his expensive wife with her expensive tastes. Yes, this is no excuse for selling a human life, but it's at least an excuse. The culture of Slaver's Bay is just a slaver culture and they don't feel any real remorse for it. They designed their clothes to mark themselves as slavers. Also, Jorah sold poachers... again, one's questionable existence/past doesn't excuse making them a slave, but its still better than slavery for no reason other than its their way of life.

I consider Jorah a slaver. And because he knew better, coming from a society were slavery was prohibited, that makes it worse, IMO.

[LordStoneheart]

I consider Jorah a slaver. And because he knew better, coming from a society were slavery was prohibited, that makes it worse, IMO.

Just gonna have to disagree with this reasoning, and agree to disagree in general.

I think some who knew slavery was wrong and is feeling the punishment is much better than someone who finds absolutely nothing wrong with slavery because that's how they were raised.

[A Crow Come Over]

I've noticed that in many cases Dany's code of ethics and beliefs don't match up with her actions or reactions to events. Now, despite all her flaws we know for a fact that Daenerys is strongly opposed to rape, abuse of power, unjust killing, particulary of innocents, and more than anything slavery, which she has been trying to destroy for 3 books. She is generally more humanistic than most other characters in ASOIAF (saving that girl from those Dothraki that wanted to rape her, even though they killed her later anyway in AGOT, helping those afflicted by the Pale Mare in ADWD, one of the finest acts in ASOIAF imo). That's all well and good.

Now the confusion begins: she despises rape and slavery, as any decent human being would, but during her time with the Dothraki it says in AGOT that she grows to love them as a people, and chastises Viserys for calling them savages. She defends and feels sympathy for a culture that has killed, raped and enslaved for thousands of years (hell, the Dothrakis owe their existence to enslaving and terrorizing those weaker than them).

She proceeds to inexplicably fall in love with Khal Drogo, a man who has no doubt raped and killed hundreds (he's a Dothraki Khal, it basically goes without saying that he's done these things, and probably has been doing them for most of his life). She even admires Drogo's prowess in battle, and how fine of a warrior he is, but that automatically means that he's a brutal killer who has almost certainly killed innocents.

After all this, she develops a HUGE crush on Daario Naharis, a mercenary who has until recently fighting for slavers, the same fucking people she's trying to bring down. Him killing the other captains has nothing to do with him being a good person, he saw Daenerys as the winning side and turned his cloak to survive. She blindly falls in love with a sellsword who has probably been looting and pillaging his whole life. What about her supposed will to protect innocents?

There's tons of other examples I could use, like her sacking three cities (there's no way her sellswords didn't rape or pillage, that's just inevitable with a big army) but you get the point I think. This frustrates me, because Daenerys seems like a good and moral person who really wants to do good, but her actions don't reflect that. Does she see those people as a means to an end? Or does she have two sides to her personality, the kind and caring queen and the ruthless and conquering dragon?

Sounds like a perfectly normal teenage girl with 3 dragons, a sense of entitlement and daddy issues.

[Arya kiddin']

Dany as a character itself is very inconsistent. What would you expect if you give a 15 year old so much political power, an army and DRAGONS? Acquiring each of these has consecutively diminished her sanity score.

[A Game of Hodors]

Sounds like a perfectly normal teenage girl with 3 dragons, a sense of entitlement and daddy issues.

This is something people seem to forget. Dany isn't an adult, neither does it seem likely that she is overly educated given how she spent her childhood. Her mistakes don't seem overly awful given her situation, which is bizarre and frankly would be hard for an adult to cope with.

[Toxspecific]

Dany as a character itself is very inconsistent. What would you expect if you give a 15 year old so much political power, an army and DRAGONS? Acquiring each of these has consecutively diminished her sanity score.

I've been waiting for someone to say this. You are correct.

Oft times Dany fans accept something silly that Dany did, or a mistake she made, and then come up with 'she's just a 15 year old girl, you can't expect her to make no mistakes!'. Which is true, but problem is they use this logic while giving reasons for why she should be the Queen of Westeros which is absurd. It is like me asking my friend to let my 6 year old son drive his car, then when my friend says no, I go 'but he's just 6 years old you can't expect him not to make mistakes!'. Lol.

[Arya kiddin']

I've been waiting for someone to say this. You are correct.

Oft times Dany fans accept something silly that Dany did, or a mistake she made, and then come up with 'she's just a 15 year old girl, you can't expect her to make no mistakes!'. Which is true, but problem is they use this logic while giving reasons for why she should be the Queen of Westeros which is absurd. It is like me asking my friend to let my 6 year old son drive his car, then when my friend says no, I go 'but he's just 6 years old you can't expect him not to make mistakes!'. Lol.

IKR. :cheers:

[SeanF]

I've been waiting for someone to say this. You are correct.

Oft times Dany fans accept something silly that Dany did, or a mistake she made, and then come up with 'she's just a 15 year old girl, you can't expect her to make no mistakes!'. Which is true, but problem is they use this logic while giving reasons for why she should be the Queen of Westeros which is absurd. It is like me asking my friend to let my 6 year old son drive his car, then when my friend says no, I go 'but he's just 6 years old you can't expect him not to make mistakes!'. Lol.

Dany shows very well why you shouldn't put great power in the hands of children (although that's true of several of the characters).

[Toxspecific]

Yeah and being Queen of a volatile continent certainly is the great power Dany wouldn't be able to handle.

[Nictarion]

Dany shows very well why you shouldn't put great power in the hands of children (although that's true of several of the characters).

Yes, but the adults of the story have done no better, at least she has room for improvement.

[Greymoon]

Just gonna have to disagree with this reasoning, and agree to disagree in general.

I think some who knew slavery was wrong and is feeling the punishment is much better than someone who finds absolutely nothing wrong with slavery because that's how they were raised.

So a former child soldier who was indoctrinated and brainwashed since his early years to kill people, is less excusable than a guy who grew up in a good environment but killed all the same, because he needed money? I don't think so. And I’m not saying that the former child soldier is any less dangerous, but the crime remains the same. The difference is only that the first person knows no better, the second does, but chose to ignore it. But we can agree to disagree.

[Toxspecific]

Yes, but the adults of the story have done no better, at least she has room for improvement.

And how will she get this improvement? By using governance of the lives of thousands of people as her freaking playground for How To Rule Your Kingdom? This is a huge job, it isn't some video game that you pass the controller to the next person when you yourself fail. The failures of others have nothing to do with Dany.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

I've noticed that in many cases Dany's code of ethics and beliefs don't match up with her actions or reactions to events. Now, despite all her flaws we know for a fact that Daenerys is strongly opposed to rape, abuse of power, unjust killing, particulary of innocents, and more than anything slavery, which she has been trying to destroy for 3 books. She is generally more humanistic than most other characters in ASOIAF (saving that girl from those Dothraki that wanted to rape her, even though they killed her later anyway in AGOT, helping those afflicted by the Pale Mare in ADWD, one of the finest acts in ASOIAF imo). That's all well and good.

Now the confusion begins: she despises rape and slavery, as any decent human being would, but during her time with the Dothraki it says in AGOT that she grows to love them as a people, and chastises Viserys for calling them savages. She defends and feels sympathy for a culture that has killed, raped and enslaved for thousands of years (hell, the Dothrakis owe their existence to enslaving and terrorizing those weaker than them).

She proceeds to inexplicably fall in love with Khal Drogo, a man who has no doubt raped and killed hundreds (he's a Dothraki Khal, it basically goes without saying that he's done these things, and probably has been doing them for most of his life). She even admires Drogo's prowess in battle, and how fine of a warrior he is, but that automatically means that he's a brutal killer who has almost certainly killed innocents.

After all this, she develops a HUGE crush on Daario Naharis, a mercenary who has until recently fighting for slavers, the same fucking people she's trying to bring down. Him killing the other captains has nothing to do with him being a good person, he saw Daenerys as the winning side and turned his cloak to survive. She blindly falls in love with a sellsword who has probably been looting and pillaging his whole life. What about her supposed will to protect innocents?

There's tons of other examples I could use, like her sacking three cities (there's no way her sellswords didn't rape or pillage, that's just inevitable with a big army) but you get the point I think. This frustrates me, because Daenerys seems like a good and moral person who really wants to do good, but her actions don't reflect that. Does she see those people as a means to an end? Or does she have two sides to her personality, the kind and caring queen and the ruthless and conquering dragon?

What about she hates robert, eddard and all the usurpers dogs because they killed her father and his brother (who mourdered neds father and brother and kidnapped roberts fiance) but f...ks and loves the man who killed her brother and her king (her claim comes directly for being viserys heir) . She claims the IT and vengance for king Arys while she is in love with king Viserys killer? She has to give up her husband or her claim... But no, she is happy with the idea of she and her husband and his army """"taking back""""" the IT. Drogo a targ slayer sit as queen concort....because they were viserys heirs...

Calls Robert an usurper for taking westeros throne against the law---- Does whatever she wants with astapor and declares herself queen of mereen.

Yeah she has some ethics flaws...

[Nictarion]

And how will she get this improvement? By using governance of the lives of thousands of people as her freaking playground for How To Rule Your Kingdom? This is a huge job, it isn't some video game that you pass the controller to the next person when you yourself fail. The failures of others have nothing to do with Dany.

Unfortunately that's how that type of system worked. Do you honestly believe most rulers in RL were ready for or good at the responsibility of being a teenage monarch? In most countries 16 was considered when a ruler came into their majority, and had the lives of thousands in their hands. This is not exclusive to ASoIaF, or to just Dany. Unless Westeros starts holding open elections and forms a democracy, nothing will change that.

[Toxspecific]

So because other rulers got the job when they weren't ready, Dany should too? LOL. Her turn to screw Westeros eh?

[Nictarion]

So because other rulers got the job when they weren't ready, Dany should too? LOL. Her turn to screw Westeros eh?

Why not give her a chance, the Baratheon's/Lannisters certainly aren't doing a bang up job.

[Toxspecific]

Why not give her a chance, the Baratheon's/Lannisters certainly aren't doing a bang up job.

LOL. I'm having a hard time believing you're willing to put the lives of thousands at risk to test out how good Dany will be at ruling. Wow.

[Morienthar]

Unfortunately that's how that type of system worked. Do you honestly believe most rulers in RL were ready for or good at the responsibility of being a teenage monarch? In most countries 16 was considered when a ruler came into their majority, and had the lives of thousands in their hands. This is not exclusive to ASoIaF, or to just Dany. Unless Westeros starts holding open elections and forms a democracy, nothing will change that.

Those guys had some or the other sort of regent,Heck even Joff had a regent.

Most of the RL guys listened to their advisers a ton more than Dany does.

[Nictarion]

LOL. I'm having a hard time believing you're willing to put the lives of thousands at risk to test out how good Dany will be at ruling. Wow.

Like I said that's the way it is, unless Westeros starts electing their leaders, people with royal bloodlines will continue to rule. This really isn't that foreign of a concept is it?