Anti-Feminist Internet Meme + Privacy Invasion = Let's discuss the Internet.

[Ken Stone]

What a weird situation. I have a t-shirt that says "My other shirt is chainmail". If I was wearing that shirt and someone said "That doesn't surprise me" should I then be offended?

I'm just trying to put it into a context I can understand. Like if I had my picture taken with a sign that said "This is what a nerd looks like" and got the reaction she got, would I really be justified in getting mad?

Oh internet, why do you cause these problems?

ETA: Are there any other sort of labels that suffer from this "I can call myself this but if you say I look like it I'm insulted" conundrum?

"I'm a Marxist"

"Not surprising"

"Hey, that hurt my feelings."

"I'm Russian"

"You look Russian"

"Ouch!"

[Pero the first of His name]

The facebook group/page or some other page that generated much hate in the comments should be taken down but that is it.

As i said, solely as a meme as it is i do not see the big deal. If you would want to ban it then you would need to ban left and right across much of the internet if you have equal standards.

[Pero the first of His name]

What a weird situation. I have a t-shirt that says "My other shirt is chainmail". If I was wearing that shirt and someone said "That doesn't surprise me" should I then be offended?

I'm just trying to put it into a context I can understand. Like if I had my picture taken with a sign that said "This is what a nerd looks like" and got the reaction snhe got, would I really be justified in getting mad?

Oh internet, why do you cause these problems?

Exactly what i was saying with a great example.

Word feminist is key here, they must be protected from all ridicule or hell will be raised! Who gives a damn about an ugly, skinny nerd? XD

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I think the comments were needlessly cruel. On the other hand, if you choose to make a public political statement, you've kind of given up the right not to have it reversed on you. In other words, it would be a much different thing if someone had taken that picture and photoshopped the sign onto her.

I still think it was a shitty thing to do, though.

[A Time for Wolves]

Your email is supposed to be private, you know your facebook profile picture can be seen by others, simple distinction.

Your Facebook is supposed to be private too though, that's the problem. Even if someone doesn't set draconian privacy settings, they tend to post with the intent of only communicating with their friends.

To me the general rule is that once I put something online then it's out there for as long as the internet exists.

Same, I'm very paranoid this way too.

[A Time for Wolves]

Exactly what i was saying with a great example.

Word feminist is key here, they must be protected from all ridicule or hell will be raised! Who gives a damn about an ugly, skinny nerd? XD

I'm not saying that feminists exclusively deserve protection from stereotypes at all, or that we shouldn't stop other forms of prejudice and stereotyping. But are you really equating being a nerd with being a target from misogynists? Nerdiness is a sub-culture that you enter into by choice, and which actually doesn't deal with negative stereotypes anymore like it did in the 1990's.

[MisterOJ]

I'm not saying that feminists exclusively deserve protection from stereotypes at all, or that we shouldn't stop other forms of prejudice and stereotyping. But are you really equating being a nerd with being a target from misogynists? Nerdiness is a sub-culture that you enter into by choice, and which actually doesn't deal with negative stereotypes anymore like it did in the 1990's.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9B5oDjm1wgM/T3gFww7jqlI/AAAAAAAABoY/c79rs-PrfPM/s400/ORLY+Wallpapers.png

[Sci-2]

http://4.bp.blogspot... Wallpapers.png

Nerdiness meaning geek culture.

It definitely doesn't have the stigma. Certainly not the rape threats and threats directed at children (that seems to be [a subset of] nerds making those because of subpar game combat).

Regardless, the two strongest proponents for taking the meme off Facebook were me and the OP, and both of us said we're fine extending that beyond feminists - A Time for Wolves even says this in the OP - so Pero's attack seems to be directed at a strawman.

[Galactus]

Your Facebook is supposed to be private too though,

It is? I was always under the impression that it was well, a public face. Kind of like putting your number in a phone book. It's not specifically private unless it is distinguished as such.

[Penguin king]

I'm not saying that feminists exclusively deserve protection from stereotypes at all, or that we shouldn't stop other forms of prejudice and stereotyping. But are you really equating being a nerd with being a target from misogynists? Nerdiness is a sub-culture that you enter into by choice, and which actually doesn't deal with negative stereotypes anymore like it did in the 1990's.

I think you're conflating women and feminists here. The meme isn't playing on sterotypes about women, it's playing on stereotypes about feminists. Not all women are feminists, and not all feminists are women. People chose to be feminists, in the same way that people chose to hold and express any political belief.

I'm not saying feminists deserve to be the target of ridicule, but they should expect it just as much as environmentalists, pro-lifers, gun rights advocates and anyone else who publicly expresses political opinions that are in any way controversial. (ie pretty much all political opinions)

[DanteGabriel]

John Scalzi sort of grappled with this too...

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/08/26/to-the-dudebro-who-thinks-hes-insulting-me-by-calling-me-a-feminist/

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

John Scalzi sort of grappled with this too...

http://whatever.scal...-me-a-feminist/

I have to say that once, for a work initiation, I was required to wear a dress to a party. So instead of some housedress, I went and rented a flapper costume, feather in the hairband and all. One of the younger secretaries said I had a better chest in it than she would have.

I was smashing.

Sadly, I still owe an old-time boarder a picture of it, which I know I have somewhere but just can't find

[Pero the first of His name]

Wherever there was hate it should be deleted from that page or at leasts hate comments deleted and bans given.

The meme is poor taste but it would also never catch on anywhere if there was no fuss because it is nothing special in any way by itself.

Feminism at its core is a good thing but many people who are "big feminist advocates" often overstep or raise alarm over silly things.

To be honest there seems to be a good deal of women who truly became "feminists" because they dislike men and jealous young pretty girls getting attention and opportunity and to satisfy some need to rebel.

I would be invested in trying to get every girl be appreciated for her mind first but there is no need to be jealous so much of girls who fail there and have the means to go into another road.

[Sci-2]

I think you're conflating women and feminists here. The meme isn't playing on sterotypes about women, it's playing on stereotypes about feminists. Not all women are feminists, and not all feminists are women. People chose to be feminists, in the same way that people chose to hold and express any political belief.

I'm not saying feminists deserve to be the target of ridicule, but they should expect it just as much as environmentalists, pro-lifers, gun rights advocates and anyone else who publicly expresses political opinions that are in any way controversial. (ie pretty much all political opinions)

Without the expectation that a woman's appearance takes precedence over her opinion the joke loses its sting. The stereotype only works in a sexist society.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Partly, but I think it's more the dehumanising effect of such barriered communication.

The same quality of the internet is what allows people to voice things they might never say in real life. It isn't the internet. It's the use to which it is put.

What a weird situation. I have a t-shirt that says "My other shirt is chainmail". If I was wearing that shirt and someone said "That doesn't surprise me" should I then be offended?

I'm just trying to put it into a context I can understand. Like if I had my picture taken with a sign that said "This is what a nerd looks like" and got the reaction she got, would I really be justified in getting mad?

Oh internet, why do you cause these problems?

ETA: Are there any other sort of labels that suffer from this "I can call myself this but if you say I look like it I'm insulted" conundrum?

"I'm a Marxist"

"Not surprising"

"Hey, that hurt my feelings."

"I'm Russian"

"You look Russian"

"Ouch!"

The problem with things in print is that you can't hear the tone of voice that was meant, only what you think it was.

Exactly what i was saying with a great example.

Word feminist is key here, they must be protected from all ridicule or hell will be raised! Who gives a damn about an ugly, skinny nerd? XD

Not you, apparently. In any event, it isn't about being protected. It is the asinine assumption that a person's appearance has any bearing on what they believe.

[Guest Raidne]

Ken, the other half of the insult is that feminists are just women who are bitter about not being able to get a date.

On the monkey/banana thing, I can't say I see the equivalecy between "you are unattractive" and "you are black." Once you get past that part, sure, there is an acknowledgment that society does not value those traits.

What I hate about this is that it's a good photo! She looks happy, friendly, like she has a personal sense of style - essentially like a person people would be happy to spend time with. But there's this implication that she's just gross to all people because someone - a woman - equates being desired by frat boys for sex is the be all and end all of a person's worth - and then they make me walk through the twisted little cave of their beliefs to get what's being said.

So yeah, though a feminist might like men, and sex, looking like you don't measure your self worth by how many guys want to bone you IS indeed what a feminist looks like.

[Penguin king]

Without the expectation that a woman's appearance takes precedence over her opinion the joke loses its sting. The stereotype only works in a sexist society.

I don't think that's true though. There are stereotypes about the holders of most political beliefs. There are preconsived notions of what a typical enviromentalist looks like or an average gun owner, vegetarian, birther, gay rights activist, whatever. Stereotypes are reductive obviously, but they're not inherently sexist.

The meme only works because of the irony in the woman's original picture. The "This is what a feminist looks like" campaign is designed to show that feminists are a diverse and varied group of people, and that people's ideas of what a feminist looks like don't generally match the reality. Unfortunately, in this case the woman in question does seem to fit a lot of those sterotypes so the message she's trying to convey is reversed.

If the NRA were running a similar camaign "This is what a gun owner looks like" , and one picture happened to show someone like this guy proudly holding up a sign. Then would it be offensive for someone to caption that image with the words "That's, pretty much what I expected"?

[TerraPrime]

Feminism at its core is a good thing but many people who are "big feminist advocates" often overstep or raise alarm over silly things.

It'd be nice to have a list of things that are too silly to be upset about. I'd like to see it so I can distribute to all my feminists friends and save ourselves some wasted effort. Why don't you start that list for us, Pero?

To be honest there seems to be a good deal of women who truly became "feminists" because they dislike men and jealous young pretty girls getting attention and opportunity and to satisfy some need to rebel.

To be honest there seems to be a significant number of people who carry with them the stereotype that feminists are jealous women who can't compete for the hot dates and then who seek to justify that stereotype using vague and imprecise terms "a good deal."

I've started associated with self-identified feminists since college. I cannot recall a single politically active feminist who'd fit that profile. I've met women who do seem to be bitter about not being able to get dates, but these women don't build a feminist identity over it. The self-identifying feminists that I know of choose that label because the politics of gender and sex motivates them to do so. Maybe things are very different where you are from?

I would be invested in trying to get every girl be appreciated for her mind first but there is no need to be jealous so much of girls who fail there and have the means to go into another road.

What does this mean? Fail where? What other road? Jealous of what?

[Mad Monkey]

I have to say that once, for a work initiation, I was required to wear a dress to a party. So instead of some housedress, I went and rented a flapper costume, feather in the hairband and all. One of the younger secretaries said I had a better chest in it than she would have.

I was smashing.

Sadly, I still owe an old-time boarder a picture of it, which I know I have somewhere but just can't find

So, you bring up something like that just to say that you can't find any pictures of it?

[TerraPrime]

Straight men are the worst cock teases.

Like, they walk around in their muscle shirts and sweat-pants-without-undies to "go get milk from the grocery store" or they walk around in the locker room with a towel so skimpy it barely covers anything and then they act all affronted when you go ask them their numbers. :rolleyes: