Breaking Bad - Final Season - SPOILERS. The Rise of Skysenberg. (Thread 3.)

[Jabronius Maximus]

I don't think it's that implausible that Walt is just off his game by that point - he fails to get Jesse to leave town, he fails to lure him out with Brock, he knows Jesse was at his house prepared to burn it down (plus he's got the whole Hank situation looming over him, among other things). Then there's (one of) his major flaws - Walt has always had his hubris.

That is very similar to how Walt used me (Hector) to bait Gus. Only difference is I didn't say a word to the DEA, while Jesse confessed everything.

[Gears of the Beast]

I'm not convinced the Nazis were shooting to kill, at that range with their weapons it would be pretty hard to let Hank and Gomez get to the cover of the car in 1 piece. I think they're just trying to get them to surrender. That was some genius writing though. This fucking show is amazing.

[Azzanadra]

Holy.... that was amazing.

I think wither Hank or Gomez (probably both) are going to kick the bucket.

[Zell Holland]

I don't see what's so bad or "amateur" about using a cliffhanger ending - they barely do it on the show and it does have its purpose of ratcheting up the tension. It's like Roger Federer coming up with a serve and volley in the fifth set.

[Bridgeburners]

One thing is for sure....

The Aryans are a lot more reliable than Skinny Pete for coming to aid in the desert.

[Goodbye World]

It's far fetched that no one got hit despite the fact that Hank and Gomez where in the open when the nazis started shooting. They could have had Gomez die and Hank survive untill next episode if they really needed a cliffhanger.

On a side note, is there anyone who thought that the nazis wouldn't show up at the end?

[Illyrio Mo'Parties]

That was the most unfair cliffhanger ever! I'm shocked. Shocked and brutalised.

(And season 3 is no comparison, I'm sorry but it was totally obvious Jesse shot Gale)

Yeah, the Aryans don't know anything about the money, all they know is some co-ordinates.

I'm given to understand that, in real life, when people shoot at each other they miss most of the time (especially when they're a bunch of goofy, careless rednecks, shooting up the very car that their prized chemistry teacher is in). They've gone for gun realism before; apparently the silencers used in the show are accurately depicted, so maybe this is in that vein. Is there anybody reading this with military-type experience that can confirm/refute?

I don't think it's implausible either that Walt got tricked by Jesse. This season he's been brazenly lying to Jesse's face about Mike, and far as I can tell, he thinks Jesse's buying it. Walt's always underestimated Jesse, just like Mike underestimated Walt.

I wonder what Jesse was doing at the end? We saw him trying to slide out of the car, and then all hell broke loose and I didn't see him again. Was he just going for cover? Is he going to call the police? Or was he reaching for the ricin grenade Walt keeps taped under the car?

The tension after Walt made that phone call was unbearable. Hank had absolutely no reason to hurry and so he spent a good five, ten minutes strutting around while a 10,000lb ACME anvil hangs above his head. And I'd like to repeat what I've said previously about how Hank should've done the right thing and told the DEA. Normally, I imagine, when the cops bust a major drug kingpin, they send in a hefty amount of backup, just in case. Had there been more than two cops there, things might now be very different. Oh, Hank! Pride goeth before the fall!

Other thoughts:

...The phone call had no warrent, he needs Jesse to testify to his conversation with Walt etc.

There was a thing on The Wire called a one-party consent call recording deelybob. Maybe Hank used one of them?

Question: Did Jack fail to hear Walt desperately trying to call him off, or did he hear him and decide that he didn't care?

He doesn't give a fuck. He's just gonna kill whoever's there and take Walt away, and if Walt thinks Jack's gonna let him walk away after one cook then he's dumber than a human anus.

Walt's been very lucky in impressing these criminal types, but his luck has run out. When he made Dylan say his name, he had Mike standing next to him to back up his claims. When he first used the Aryans, it was plausible that he needed their prison connections. But Walt's always had trouble cowing Jack - rewatch their first meeting - and now, having asked them to do an outside hit, thus signalling that he doesn't have any people of his own anymore, he's completely lost the upper hand with them. He should have stayed well away, but it's too late...

So Todd's got a thing for Lydia, huh? The way he thumbed her lipstick on the cup was weird.

...I think Lydia has 2 strong motivations for wanting someone else as her cook in lieu of Todd-- if he becomes aggressive about his crush, and the fact that Jesse can make a much better product. If Lydia gets different muscle, fires the skinheads and tries to secure Jesse, that would create incentive for Jack's crew to go after Jesse down the road.

Remember how Todd kept that kid's spider-in-a-jar? I'm starting to think that guy's seriously weird. I think Lydia and Walt both have gotten in way over their heads by dealing with these psychotics. The Gus and Mike Roadshow they are not.

...I seriously can't believe that cliffhanger. Fuck.

[Rockroi]

If there is ONE thing about this last season (all 16 episodes and/or the 13 we have seen so far) that I dislike greatly is the role that the White Supremacists have taken up. I find their whole role completely disproportionate to the story line.

Prior to this, the story was about how these various people lived in this world and how some of them drifted in and out of the legitimate world and the drug underworld (obviously, Walt being the largest contributor to that). The characters drove the story and their actions and decisions drove the story. And when the criminal element had a role, it was through a personality and a character - whether that character was a caricature like Tuco or a multi-faceted character like Gus Fring.

The WS have overtaken all that. For starters, they have very little, if any personality. They have taken up very little development time and instead they are doing INCREDIBLY POWERFUL things. When they were introduced it was as a bunch of "second story men" who ripped off people. But that almost instantly morphed into this uber-powerful killing organization that apparently knows no bounds. They were able to somehow pull off multiple killings at separate maximum security prisons using, apparently, guys that were such great criminals that ... they were all already in prison... This killing was so incredible that it made the news.

To me, that was crazy. I said so on these boards. HOwever, I wrote it off as being a one-time thing; something that would come and go to advance the story and drift away. But as time has gone on, the WS have metastasized - they are not simply powerful- even in the way Gus Fring was powerful; they appear to be actively driving and advancing the story AWAY from the story we were watching until now. Instead, the WS are taking over the story - they are far more powerful than ANY of the characters AND have overtaken the actual story of Walt and Hank and Sky etc. Now, its the WS killing people, destroying drug plans and simply wreaking untold havoc. And theya re doing it at the expense of the story we were watching until about 6 episodes ago.

Now, the story is no longer about Walt and Hank and Jesse and how they will live in this world; those characters are no longer making the decisions that are driving the story and advancing the plot. No. Now, the WS are the guys driving the action. In addition to the Uber-Super-Max Murders they pulled off thus removing from Walt the obvious connections to Gus, they have now also:

-Destroyed an apparently competent, rival drug cartel;

-Begun rapid advancement of meth making under the guise of the former operators;

-They have now shot up two DEA agents in a power-grab to continue meth operations.

These actions are disproportionate to any other character in the show's history in such a short period of time. And they are doing it in a rather uninteresting manner. None of the characters has displayed any personality or gravitas that would compel me to watch them. As a comparison, the WS are much like the "Cousins" who we were all supposed to think were cool and edgy but served to only murder innocent people who did not see them coming, old ladies or guys who had their backs turned. They never developed a personality that was real.

To me, that's much like the WS- this bland, boring but utterly unstoppable force that has overtaken the actions and importance of all the other characters and NOT in an interesting way.

By contrast, you had Gus Fring. While I never liked Fring as much as many others, Gus had personality - he had attitude and gravitas long long long long long before he was "Gus Fring." He ingratiated himself to the audience AND the characters in a way that slowly and methodically explained his actions and his impact on the story. When he brings you to that drug lab for the first time- you buy it; when he explained that he could not have Jesse in the lab, you knew why; EVEN WHEN Gus killed the entire Mexican Drug cartel and as "wtf" that was... you could buy it. He slowly grew into the powerful roll that was meant for him.

Not the WS; the WS were unbelievably powerful THE FIRST TIME WE MET THEM (prior to the uber-prison killings). They do whatever they want apparently without consequences.

But worse than all that is the fact that unlike Gus who seemed impacted by Walt and Jesse - the WS are NOT ONLY unimpacted by them... they operate in a story that THEY are now driving - irrespective of the characters we are actually invested in. As unrealistic and unbelievable as they are, what makes them worse is that the WS are now the ones driving the story at the EXPENSE of the stories we actually like, Deus ex machina.

That, to me, is ruinous. There are 3 episodes left and the story for the last 4+ seasons the story has been how Walt and JEsse and Hank would interact, interface and survive this world. Now, that story has been supplanted by the events and power of the WS and with 3 episodes left ... its really disproportional to the story we had all signed on for.

[Jabronius Maximus]

I think the reason the WS aren't given the personality of previous villains is that the focus has now shifted to the main cast entirely. As far as I'm concerned, they're Lydia's muscle, and she is fairly developed as a character. We don't know yet but she may have given the Nazis the idea of getting Walt to cook again.

And besides, I would be completely on board with the show if the focus remains on Jesse and Walt (and Hank if he survives) right to the end, with the WS as a sideshow.

[Mya Stone]

This thread is past 400. The new thread is here:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96520-breaking-bad-final-season-the-fall-of-the-empire-spoilers/

Trebs must be sleeping after staying up to watch his Cowboys barely beat the Giants. :P

[RumHam]

The WS have overtaken all that. For starters, they have very little, if any personality. They have taken up very little development time and instead they are doing INCREDIBLY POWERFUL things. When they were introduced it was as a bunch of "second story men" who ripped off people. But that almost instantly morphed into this uber-powerful killing organization that apparently knows no bounds. They were able to somehow pull off multiple killings at separate maximum security prisons using, apparently, guys that were such great criminals that ... they were all already in prison... This killing was so incredible that it made the news.

I'm gonna wait till the shows over before judging the quality of the final season, but I do wanna address this because you're not the first person I've seen make this mistake. Todd worked for the pest control company that Walt and Jessie were using as a cover to cook last season. His uncle and the other white supremacists did not. The only connection between Vamanos pest control and these guys and their organization is Todd.

[Bridgeburners]

Y'know, if we were to see this show from just Hank's perspective, we would see this episode as the episode where Hank finally catches Heisenberg, the man he's been chasing since season 1. It reminds me of the book he gave Walt Jr about Pablo Escobar, and Jr describing how it's about the people who caught Pablo and their process. Then he mentions that Hank says that the drug lords get all the fame, and there's not enough credit given to the ones that catch them.

Anyway, it's sad that Hank had to die a few minutes after catching the Heisenberg. It's a shame he didn't go to the DEA sooner, his boss probably would have given him a chance to catch him.

[Gears of the Beast]

Anyway, it's sad that Hank had to die a few minutes after catching the Heisenberg. It's a shame he didn't go to the DEA sooner, his boss probably would have given him a chance to catch him.

I don't think they would have ended it like that if Hank actually is gonna die there.