Bakker - A Discussion of Rectal Miracles

[themerchant]

Soooo, a thought popped into my head there. Imagine if the Skinspy with a soul (Simas? Akka's former teacher) was actually made by Moe and was required for his son Maithanet to gain the trust of the Mandate and allow them to sail together to Shimeh with a common purpose, the act of exposing it probably instantly negated any suspicions between camps.

Crack-pot i know but hey if we're going with Kellhus has a bag of holding for a bum, then not too bad in context, in my opinion anyway.

[jurble]

Moe doesn't have any capability towards constructing a skin-spy. Unless, your crackpot entails him instilling a soul into a Skin-spy. Then, the Skinspies are pretty much hard-coded for obedience to the Consult. Even if he could give the Skinspy a soul, I don't know whether he could break it and force to do his bidding.

[Sci-2]

Moe doesn't have any capability towards constructing a skin-spy. Unless, your crackpot entails him instilling a soul into a Skin-spy. Then, the Skinspies are pretty much hard-coded for obedience to the Consult. Even if he could give the Skinspy a soul, I don't know whether he could break it and force to do his bidding.

If a Skin-spy has a soul, it might transcend/exceeed its Makkers.

This might be what happened with Wutteat.

eta: Jurble there's a poster named "A Few Good Non-Men" viewing this thread. Someone's giving you a run for your money.

[jurble]

God damn it, that's a good name.

[sologdin]

odds on AI rebellion in volume VI?

[jurble]

I think the Skin-spies have stronger control imprinted into them entirely because of the Sranc's AI rebellion.

[Sci-2]

odds on AI rebellion in volume VI?

A good way for Kellhus to reduce the power of the No-God would be to ensoul the Sranc, Bashrag, and Wracu. If souls are just the Outside leaking in then it might actually be possible.

After all, one can create animata by shearing the watched into physical objects. And there's already been one skin-spy with a soul.

Another option is for Kellhus and Iyokus to use the Daimos to fill the soulless products of the Tekne with demon souls. These demons will fight alongside the Ordeal because the Consult shutting out the world will deprive them of their favorite toys.

[Sci-2]

If it makes you feel better, 12 Angry Nonmen with "WE CANNOT REMEMBER THE VERDICT" in allcaps below is still the all time great.

Glory cannot vouchsafe glory, my simian friend.

Measure is unceasing.

[Kalbear]

If it makes you feel better, 12 Angry Nonmen with "WE CANNOT REMEMBER THE VERDICT" in allcaps below is still the all time great.

if a few good nonmen simply had the title "you can't handle the truth" it'd go over the top.

[sologdin]

Achamian: I want the truth!

Kellhus: You can't handle the truth. Son, we live in a world that has walls, which can't be raised against what has been forgotten. Who's gonna remember it? You? You, Mimara? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Inrau, and you curse the Dunyain. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Inrau's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

[Sci-2]

Holy shit. That is a fucking amazing theory. The Gods baying like wolves at the gate. They have everything lose if the Consult succeeds. Nice.

I don't know if something like that will be exactly how it goes down, but we seem to have been told repeatedly than demons can take over the bodies of mortals.

I do think Kellhus would try to mitigate the control the No-God had over the weapon races, but if you need a protracted ritual to summon one Ciphrang it's impractical.

[Sci-2]

The Hundred seem to not like Kellhus because he takes their worshipers, but they're blind to the No-God? They should fear the latter much more. Same w/ lesser Cirphrangs.

The Hundred's problem is a perception of time, so even if the No-God walks they may still be blind.

I was counting on the lesser Ciphrang to have a much perception of time more akin to that of an Earwan mortal.

[Happy Ent]

You […] my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

Golf clap.

[generic]

Speaking of miracles, (and this may have come up before):

The appendix speaks of three miracles from Kellhus. The first being finding water in the desert and the second being the circumfixion. But it doesn't list the third. What is it? Teleporting about to kill the final Cishaurim at Shimeh?

The charge of the Shrial knights maybe?

[Madness]

Golf clap.

+1 solo & golf clap. They should make that sound in a wearable button.

The charge of the Shrial knights maybe?

I figure the third miracle was either the Cant of Transposition or something that happened in the twenty year interim.

[Sci-2]

I think it's something Bakker wanted to leave open.

Probably happened during the Unification. Possibly the Decapitants, but it may be something Proyas will reflect on in TUC.

[unJon]

I think it's something Bakker wanted to leave open.

Probably happened during the Unification. Possibly the Decapitants, but it may be something Proyas will reflect on in TUC.

Does anything else in appendix post date TTT? I had always thought appendix was as of end of TTT, but haven't reread with that in mind.

[Sci-2]

Does anything else in appendix post date TTT? I had always thought appendix was as of end of TTT, but haven't reread with that in mind.

Ah, good point. In that case I go for the prophecy he gave Saubon.

[lokisnow]

Man I think I posted something earlier in the year about Kellhus' miracles and I had one more than Umiaki and finding the water. It was healing/absolving/shriving Esmenet, scraping clean the parchment of her soul.

[Sci-2]

Man I think I posted something earlier in the year about Kellhus' miracles and I had one more than Umiaki and finding the water. It was healing/absolving/shriving Esmenet, scraping clean the parchment of her soul.

But would people really see that as a miracle?

I suppose being so brilliant that you use a third inutteral could be seen as a miracle, but that isn't really something that is considered impossible given there is a historical possibility of someone already accomplishing this.

Miracles, to me, are a breaking/defiance of normal expectation. The idea that using a third inutteral qualifies as a miracle is fundamentally flawed to me, especially seeing as others can learn how to do this. I feel like the Cisco reference is appropriate here:

“Anyone could say that a miracle is something impossible, but they say it thoughtlessly, mindlessly, because most people have such weak imaginations they couldn’t possibly understand what they’re saying when they say that a miracle is something impossible.

Ask anyone what that means, what it means to see a miracle, and they will say that it’s something impossible, but they mean that a miracle is something formerly believed to be impossible that turns out not to be, not to be impossible, in other words, but possible after all.

If this were really true, then miracles would be the most ordinary things in the world, the most uninspiring things in the world, and what can one expect from people who have never been anything but ordinary and uninspired.”

-- Michael Cisco, The Traitor

eta: formatting