Worst villains

[incaelo]

But back to my main question. If not Tyrion, is there anyone else on the list of the main six who qualifies as a villain, of whom you predict will end up as a villain in the context of the overall plot?

It is uncertain where exactly her head is at, but Arya might make it onto that list. If we were dropped into her story at the present moment, meaning we had no context for most of her actions and no history with her as a POV character, she would seem like a straight psychopathic murderer .

[mankytoes]

I've barely heard Rorge mentioned on here, I guess his character wasn't very memorable. It's still shocking reading his lines back, you forget, most of them are about raping children.

[Blood of the Trout]

Ramsay, Gregor, Joffrey or Biter. No redeeming quality whatsoever as far as I can recall.

[Blood of the Trout]

Interesting that nobody picks POV characters, proving that nobody is a villain in their own POV.

The real question is, who is the worst villain from among the POV characters?

Cersei, by far.

Hmm, I'm not sure she's worse than [flame-bate deleted] ... but she did not even begin to appear as a POV character until Book 4, along with Victarion and Hotah. As a character, she is significant, but as a POV character, she is decidly 3rd tier.

But there are 6 surviving 1st Tier POV characters. Are any of them villains? Who is the worst?

1. Arya

2. Sansa

3. Dany

4. Tyrion

5. Bran

6. Jon

I don't see any of them as villains, but among those six, Tyrion is definitely the most morally bankrupt.

And Shae deserved it.

Wait. She deserved to be strangled to death because she gave a false testimony on his trial? She was clearly wrong on doing this and the "giant of Lannister" line was unnecessary, but I don't think anyone should be executed for committing perjury.

[Lord Puff Fish]

Ramsay. How is this even contestable? Ramsay kills his own brother; enjoys hunting peasant women and raping and killing them; forcibly marries, rapes, and forgets Lady Hornwood until she dies; allows his servant to be killed in his stead; gets the trust of Theon Greyjoy; convinces him that Bran and Rickon need to be killed, causing the deaths of two innocent boys; betrays Theon and burns Winterfell; tortures and mutilates Theon (including possible castration/ emasculation) and generally degrades him and treats him as though he's one of Ramsay's bitches; forcibly marries and rapes Jeyne Poole, abusing her both physically and psychologically; and worse of all enjoys all of the above.

[All_Men_Must_Poop]

Wait. She deserved to be strangled to death because she gave a false testimony on his trial? She was clearly wrong on doing this and the "giant of Lannister" line was unnecessary, but I don't think anyone should be executed for committing perjury.

They sure as shit do if that perjury leads to your execution.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Cersei, by far.

I don't see any of them as villains, but among those six, Tyrion is definitely the most morally bankrupt.

Wait. She deserved to be strangled to death because she gave a false testimony on his trial? She was clearly wrong on doing this and the "giant of Lannister" line was unnecessary, but I don't think anyone should be executed for committing perjury.

Her crime against Tyrion wasn't committing perjury at his trial. He loved her madly (foolishly, but still), and she blatantly betrayed him, humiliated him completely unnecessarily, and then to top it off f*cked his biggest enemy.

Taking into account Tyrion's emotional state and the circumstances, it is understandable and excusable that he killed Shae.

Also while I realize that sounds callous, I note that we can't transpose our moral values to that place and time. Here we wouldn't be justified for killing her. But the value of life and morality in Westeros are not the same as they are in 2013 modern world.

[RhaenysBee]

Ramsay is by far the worst villain. And Gregor.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

1 - Ramsay Bolton

2 - Joffrey Baratheon

3 - Cersei Lannister

4 - Petyr Baelish

5 - Tywin Lannister

6 - Ser Gregor Clegane

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Tywin was the worst villain, in my opinion. His cold "any means justify the ends" approach to ruling is inhuman and evil. He had no honor at all. Pure 100% selfish asshole.

[THE WATCHER IN THE DARK]

Tywin was the worst villain, in my opinion. His cold "any means justify the ends" approach to ruling is inhuman and evil. He had no honor at all. Pure 100% selfish asshole.

Tywin was ruthless but I don't think he was worse than Joffrey or Ramsey or Gregor. I never got the impression that he enjoyed all the terrible things that he did, most of his cruel actions were made out of necessity to protect his family. Apart from what he did to Tyrion's wife of course.

[Ser Duncan of Flea Bottom]

Tywin used intelligence to win his battles

he can't be worse than Joffrey or Ramsay, who do lots of stuff for pleasure, like torture

[Jon's Queen Consort]

And Shae deserved it.

:agree: especially after her comments on Lolly's rape.

[A Bong of Ice and Fire]

Tywin was ruthless but I don't think he was worse than Joffrey or Ramsey or Gregor. I never got the impression that he enjoyed all the terrible things that he did, most of his cruel actions were made out of necessity to protect his family. Apart from what he did to Tyrion's wife of course.

Yes, Joffrey and Ramsay and Gregor are worse monsters than Tyrion. But the scale of Tywin's evil is greater, making him worse (to me).

Tywin may not have enjoyed what he did, but he still did it. Burning the Riverlands??? Asshole.

[David Selig]

They sure as shit do if that perjury leads to your execution.

Do you happen to have a special version of ASOS in which Tyrion got executed?

[Alhazred]

Yes, Joffrey and Ramsay and Gregor are worse monsters than Tyrion. But the scale of Tywin's evil is greater, making him worse (to me).

Tywin may not have enjoyed what he did, but he still did it. Burning the Riverlands??? Asshole.

Tyrion is of course guilty of the same thing. It was he who armed the mountain clans and sent them to rape and pillage in the Vale and elsewhere, in the hopes of turning it into a "smoking wasteland". Asshole, indeed!

[Chuck88]

Despite the fact that he is now trying to redeem himself, I'd say Jaime is the worst villain.

He pushed a kid out of a window so he could continue to screw his sister guilt free. I know there's more to it than that, but you know what I mean.

Nope.

Ramsay is by far the most outright evil.

Gregor, Roose, Joffrey, LF, Walder Frey and Cersei are all fairly awful people.

Euron is an intriguing one. I'm sure there's more to come from him.

Controversial one, but Khal Drogo.

[SkullSplitter]

No mention of Viserys? Surprising

[Alhazred]

:agree: especially after her comments on Lolly's rape.

Aha! So those who make unsympathetic comments about victims deserve death, do they? I'm not sure I agree.

But I will concede, at least, that they deserve a swift kick in the pants. If any of you who are guilty of this crime should report to me, I will be happy to deliver your due punishment personally.

[Blueberry Stark]

Of the first tier POV characters, Tyrion is the worst villain thus far. How is he not a rapist? Just because he's in denial about it, it doesn't mean that the reader should be. Tyrion is a rapist of extenuating circumstances; somehow it's never REALLY his faults that he rapes. Tysha - daddy made me do it, I thought she was a whore, we were married, Jaime lied; bed slave at Illyrio' s manage - it's ambiguous, but I don't think he did it, he just scared her into thinking he would rape her (nice guy, good job not raping); sex slave prostitute in Essos - it's not rape if you pay to have sex with the unwilling sex slave, scarred by whip markings, with dead eyes. Oh yeah, then he has sex with her again after thinking that he just banged a corpse. But hey, Westeros has different standards than us concerning rape, so because of cultural relativism we shouldn't judge Tyrion for these heinous actions.

Insofar as murdering Shae is concerned, I find it hilarious that most people who argue that she deserved to die always point out first that she was a prostitute. Does that make it ok? Guess what Tyrion, she was a prostitute, so she didn't love you. He was betrayed by her, yes, and her testimony was mean; however, she was a poor girl with nothing but her looks and body to survive with, and she was trying to survive any way she could. Even if she enjoyed seeing Tyrion suffer, I don't see how she deserves to die for it.

Anyway, I'll end my rant now but I could go on and on. The funny thing is that I liked Tyrion before ADwD; I could like him again if he stopped being so whiny, but that doesn't make him a good person. It's fiction, so it's fine, imo, to like or even root for people that you would detest in real life, but let's not get so carried away in the appeal of any of the characters that we disregard their flaws and wrongdoings.