Alayne's Shadow. Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 If ASoIaF covered Robert's Rebellion and we had a few POV's and could see Bob laying the righteous smackdown on Rhaegar then Bob would be a legend on here.No, he wouldn't. The fact that he seemed to be okay with the butchering of children because Lyanna, the girl that he lusted for, couldn't be his, is messed up. Robert is not a tragic character. I'm in no doubt that he must see himself as one, but he wasn't. Every shitty decision he made was his own, and he can't blame on Lyanna's memory or Rhaegar's. He just couldn't get Lyanna in bed, and that's his biggest disappointment. Even if we had his POV, I wouldn't be a fan.Not sure why everyone is being overly romantic in their interpretation of Robert's affection for Lyanna. Losing her was more akin to a child losing his prized toy than a man being broken by losing all he had left. The loss hurt his pride much more than his heart. Condsidering all of the other characters, Robert Baratheon deserves very little sympathy.Sorry, but I don't have a sympathy for someone who ended up "broken" at 19 because he had a crush on a woman whom he barely knew (I wouldn't call it love since it takes more interaction for real love to develop IMO, not to mention Robert's actions while Lyanna was alive, cheating on her, etc) who ended up dead. Yeah, it sucks for him, but it's not like they had any kind of real relationship."Move on, you are the freaking king at 19, dude, stop whining..." - that's what someone should have really told Robert, and kept telling him until he listened.I am sorry, but he is not the first man that lost someone close to heart. I mean, every time someone loses a beloved one, we can call them broken? No, he was clinging to the idea about woman whom he didn't know, and 14 years he wasn't able to move on? I mean, it is so funny, but what Robert felt was no love, It was idea of love, idea of beauty and grace. He didn't know Lyanna pass her beauty, but he was claiming to love her. He was the man that was cheating on his fiancee while proclaiming his undying love for her. I would have felt sorry for him, if he knew her, and felt something more than infatuation. But, alas, he didn't. And that is why the argument about "broken man" doesn't work with me...Also this. Bob didn't truly loved Lyanna, he loved her beauty, and the fact that he couldn't bed her only made him frustrated. Robert only lusted for Lyanna, he never really knew her. Even Ned is quick to judge that the Lyanna and Robert match had little chance considering her personality and his. He slept with every whore possible in his Rebellion at the same time that in his mind, his beloved Lyanna was being raped by the crown prince. It's certainly a noble way to show that he truly cares...I mainly believe it because the way we have seen how he was before he died. I believe that if he had Lyanna his outcome would be very different.I admire your position, but I disagree. I don't think Lyanna would change Robert, he'd marry her and bed her, until she'd be wasted to him and he'd look for new forms of entertainment. Also, Lyanna seems to have a wild personality, and he doesn't seem to appreciate that. I can't see Robert as a tragic character. His actions led to his early grave. Everytime I think about his death, I can only see "stagspawn". And that considering different from him, Elia Martell, Princess of Dorne, had little to no involvement in the Rebellion, held hostage with her children in KL, only to be raped and murdered along with them, and only for Robert to disregard them as "dragonspawn" because he couldn't get in Lyanna's pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aderyn the Sly Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Yes and No. I believe Robert was a tragic character in a different way than others think. He was sure from a young age what his life would entail. The Lord Paramount of the Stormlands, Lord of Storm's End, betrothed to a beautiful young girl who was the daughter of the Lord Paramount of the North. He had this perfect vision of his life. But Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna and changed everything.I'm in the group that thinks that Robert didn't know Lyanna all that well on a personal level. He knew that she was beautiful. Surely he knew of her 'fire' in the sense that she wasn't a tame girl, which probably appealed to him more than other timid young maidens. However, after her tragic death I think Robert amplified his feelings for her and made her out to be more than she was. He was in love with this bigger version of Lyanna in his mind more than the actual Lyanna. In his mind she was the perfect woman. It's this Lyanna that he was thinking of when he called out her name during his wedding night and on his deathbed, and not even just this perfect girl, but the perfect life he could have had if the Rebellion didn't happen and he was just the Lord of Storm's End instead of King. Yes, Robert knew other women before and during their betrothal, and I agree with what Lyanna told Ned that marriage wouldn't change him, but I don't think things would have been as bad with him married to her instead of Cersei. So I think Robert is a tragic character in that he would probably have led a better life if Rhaegar didn't run off with Lyanna the Rebellion had not happened. Part of me wonders what would have happened if Robert didn't declare for the Throne at the Trident. Yes, "he had the better claim," but that suggest he didn't have the only claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I think that Robert knew that Lyanna was wild and not as prim and proper as the southern ladies (he would have seen her at Harrenhall and most people seem to know she rode a horse like a man) so he probably though they would be a good match. His extended morning for her was probably as much due to being in an unhappy marriage with princess-reject Cersei who was the opposite of what he wanted and so a constant reminder of what he lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherMerciless Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Those that love don't cheat. If he cheated, which he apparently did, he didn't love her. At most, she was probably the best woman he could imagine himself married to.I actually did feel sorry for him, but after reading all this damning evidence, I don't anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Those that love don't cheat. If he cheated, which he apparently did, he didn't love her. At most, she was probably the best woman he could imagine himself married to.I actually did feel sorry for him, but after reading all this damning evidence, I don't anymore.i think Robert thought he loved her. And that feeling of not knowing what would happen between them because she died reinforced it in his head until it broke him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherMerciless Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 i think Robert thought he loved her. And that feeling of not knowing what would happen between them because she died reinforced it in his head until it broke him.Yeah, season that with the guilt of having cheated on her and presto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keter Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Queen Consort' timestamp='1378926622' post='4946315']bad for Robert when it comes down to R+L case? One of the reasons I like Robert is because he is a broken man who lost the world when he lost Lyanna. I feel bad for what happened to him and I feel bad because he lost himself with losing Lyanna. Does anyone else agree with me?PS: This is about Robert being a broken man not his relationship with Cersei.I share your sentiments, fair warrior maid. Many of my thoughts on the subject of Robert are expressed herein:http://asoiaf.wester...a/page__st__140Aderyn the Sly: Good post, my lady. It is a shame that Robert couldn't have just ended up as lord of Storm's End and married the warrior maid Dacey Mormont, as she seems to have been similar to Lady Lyanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Spark of House Spark Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 The first thing Robert did when he got to Winterfell was visit Lyanna's tomb, Cercei was not surprised by this, and was apparently used to being unfavourably compared to her by Robert> he was clearly obsessed by Lyanna, who was sister to his closest friend, he had been raised with Edd, and it is Highly likely that he would have known Lyanna from a young age when family visits took place. as far as I know, Edd and Robert were not hostages of Jon Arryn, so visitors would not have been unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingofSothoryos Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 I think Robert was broken by the weight of the Iron Throne, not by losing Lyanna. I think he learned early that Cersei was a cold, vain Tywin wannabe and in his unhappiness compared her to idealized fantasy of Lyanna. Honor required him to wage the rebellion, particularly after what happened to his best friend's brother and father, but Robert never fathomed what winning the rebellion would mean, other than people will do what you say. Whether he had gotten Lyanna back and whether they would have loved each other wouldn't have mattered, because the Iron Throne would have been too much for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azul DeLaRosa Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Whoa, Hollywood has a lot of these spouse-switching breakups going on lately, very similar to how Rheagar-Cersei-Robert-Lyanna went down. I think Clint Eastwood's soon-to-be ex-wife is reported to now be with the ex of Clint's new squeeze. It's like a double date switcheroo. Same with some other celebrity couple I can't recall at present. What sort of escaped my notice in recent times is how both of Robert's and Cercie's loves deserted them---to be with each other! So whenever Robert got caught pining for Lyanna afterwards, Cersei would doubly despise Robert for preferring the memory of this woman over her, AND for how it was this Lyanna broad who'd taken Rheagar away from Cersei in the first place! So the royal couple was in an emotional bind, their marraige was a pain trap much like the horrible contraption the mad king had used to kill the father and son Starks. No matter which way Robert and Cersie tossed and turned, looking at one another would only be a constant reminder of their pain and loss. They were each other's consolation prize, but they were utterly unable to console themselves.Very well said. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 No, he wouldn't. The fact that he seemed to be okay with the butchering of children because Lyanna, the girl that he lusted for, couldn't be his, is messed up. Robert is not a tragic character. I'm in no doubt that he must see himself as one, but he wasn't. Every shitty decision he made was his own, and he can't blame on Lyanna's memory or Rhaegar's. He just couldn't get Lyanna in bed, and that's his biggest disappointment. Even if we had his POV, I wouldn't be a fan.Also this. Bob didn't truly loved Lyanna, he loved her beauty, and the fact that he couldn't bed her only made him frustrated. Robert only lusted for Lyanna, he never really knew her. Even Ned is quick to judge that the Lyanna and Robert match had little chance considering her personality and his. He slept with every whore possible in his Rebellion at the same time that in his mind, his beloved Lyanna was being raped by the crown prince. It's certainly a noble way to show that he truly cares...I admire your position, but I disagree. I don't think Lyanna would change Robert, he'd marry her and bed her, until she'd be wasted to him and he'd look for new forms of entertainment. Also, Lyanna seems to have a wild personality, and he doesn't seem to appreciate that. I can't see Robert as a tragic character. His actions led to his early grave. Everytime I think about his death, I can only see "stagspawn". And that considering different from him, Elia Martell, Princess of Dorne, had little to no involvement in the Rebellion, held hostage with her children in KL, only to be raped and murdered along with them, and only for Robert to disregard them as "dragonspawn" because he couldn't get in Lyanna's pants?So true, I can't feel sorry for a man who looks at the bodies of babies and disregard their brutal deaths because they are the children of the man he hates. I don't feel sorry for Robert at all he lived in a fantasy about Lyanna and didn't deserve her at all, there's nothing tragic about his character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Wolf Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Well, she is born around 281AL, that would be the year of Harrenhal tourney, which means that they were already bethroted. Also, there is Bella who was concieved during Battle of the bells. He most certainly wasn't the faithful guy, not even to Lyanna.Nor was Lyanna faithful to him. She ran off with Rhaegar, had sex with him, and gave birth to his child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Nor was Lyanna faithful to him. She ran off with Rhaegar, had sex with him, and gave birth to his child.Well, he started first :)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Wolf Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Well, he started first :)...Good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Nor was Lyanna faithful to him. She ran off with Rhaegar, had sex with him, and gave birth to his child.Maybe she wasn't, but he didn't knew that. All he knew was that she was being raped by the Crown Prince. And well, he had his fair share of bastards before, through and after the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Good pointMaybe she wasn't, but he didn't knew that. All he knew was that she was being raped by the Crown Prince. And well, he had his fair share of bastards before, through and after the war.Also, just to add, at least Lyanna wasn't hypocrite about it. Her brothers knew she didn't love Robert. He, on the other hand, was proclaiming his undying love for a woman whom he cheated on every given occasion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 bad for Robert when it comes down to R+L case? One of the reasons I like Robert is because he is a broken man who lost the world when he lost Lyanna. I feel bad for what happened to him and I feel bad because he lost himself with losing Lyanna. Does anyone else agree with me?PS: This is about Robert being a broken man not his relationship with Cersei.Nah, not really. Plenty of people have had their hearts (or fantasies) broken by unrequited love. No particular reason to feel sorrier for RB than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Napyura Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 the only tragic thing about Robert was that he was never evil character. Infact none of Baratheons are/were evil at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Yes, I've always felt some level of sympathy for him. No, it does not excuse his depression or self-destructive behavior and absolutely does not excuse him abusing those in his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 Those that love don't cheat. If he cheated, which he apparently did, he didn't love her. For me, that isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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