Why does Arya have so many chapters?

[Arya kiddin']

you mean........kind of like Dany?

Total, sometimes I wonder if your endgame here is not that you believe these crazy things you write, but perhaps more like you're an angel from heaven set to unite the fandom, as nothing creates consensus so thoroughly as one of your threads.

Kudos to the second para you wrote there butter. :thumbsup:

[Mladen]

you mean........kind of like Dany?

Total, sometimes I wonder if your endgame here is not that you believe these crazy things you write, but perhaps more like you're an angel from heaven set to unite the fandom, as nothing creates consensus so thoroughly as one of your threads.

Touche, my dear...

[zorkman]

I wish Robb had gotten POV's instead of this little girl. Her chapters are boring!

Rob Stark, the bore of Westeros. I am so glad he didn't.

[idler]

I wish Robb had gotten POV's instead of this little girl. Her chapters are boring!

As for POV's, Arya is a better suited observer than Robb, and better educated. We know she was good at doing her numbers back in Winterfell, she is an excellent rider, got her fencing lessons by a certain Syrio Forel (and probably some political knowledge, since as First Sword of Braavos, he was a high ranking executive of a superpower for 9 years), can read and write, speaks High Valyrian, Braavosi, the tongues of Lys and Pentos, has daily lessons in Natural Science with the waif, learns mummer's tricks and how to gather information of all kind etc.etc.

I think her description of Braavosi life is one of the most precise of all POV's, and she easily qualifies for a job like Hand of the King. Of course GRRM is glad to use this narrator - far more reliable than Sansa, let alone Robb who even forgot his betrothal! :read:

[total1402]

Hmm, firstly, Dany does not have many chapters at all except in ADWD as I said earlier; those could have been cut. Secondly, I have not ever once said that Jamie should have had more chapters, that is something a few people have presumed. Thirdly, I am not saying that Arya has too many chapters in general only that this is in ACOK and ASOS; where she has 23. IMO this is purely filler so that Arya can be kept busy until the RW and not relevant or simply repetitive images of death n suffering in the Riverlands. .For Arya to have in some instances the most chapters of any character in certain books is bizarre because its ultimately just an adventure tale with the hero trying to get somewhere with hurdles along the way. To make that one of the pillars of ASOS and ACOK seems bizarre to me. Finally, to Butterbumps, Apple Martini, Miadin and probably a few others; you wouldn't have this attitude if it was somebody else posting this fairly typical question. So you're not really making any point besides that you don't like me. The question I posted was a simple one pointing out my own view that Arya has a disproportionate number of chapters in ACOK and ASOS; which I found incredibly boring on my first read and so have never re-read them since.

[Tetrarch42]

I think ASoIaF is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills straks and doesnt afraid of anything.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Hmm, firstly, Dany does not have many chapters at all except in ADWD as I said earlier; those could have been cut. Secondly, I have not ever once said that Jamie should have had more chapters, that is something a few people have presumed. Thirdly, I am not saying that Arya has too many chapters in general only that this is in ACOK and ASOS; where she has 23. IMO this is purely filler so that Arya can be kept busy until the RW and not relevant or simply repetitive images of death n suffering in the Riverlands. .For Arya to have in some instances the most chapters of any character in certain books is bizarre because its ultimately just an adventure tale with the hero trying to get somewhere with hurdles along the way. To make that one of the pillars of ASOS and ACOK seems bizarre to me. Finally, to Butterbumps, Apple Martini, Miadin and probably a few others; you wouldn't have this attitude if it was somebody else posting this fairly typical question. So you're not really making any point besides that you don't like me. The question I posted was a simple one pointing out my own view that Arya has a disproportionate number of chapters in ACOK and ASOS; which I found incredibly boring on my first read and so have never re-read them since.

I was actually going to ask you, why not try rereading, skip Arya's chapters and see where that gets you. I'm wondering, and confused, are saying that you do reread, but skip Arya in book two and three, or that you just don't reread because of all the extra Arya?

I find it fascinating, and just for trying to follow information like Roose and the RW plans to be one thing that makes those chapters very interesting, and that's just for starters.

[total1402]

I am more dabbling in certain chapters. I am not on a full re-read. In previous re-reads I did skip her chapters, though this had a lot to do with the fact that I either was re-reading AFFC/ADWD or was reading POV in sequence. So I would read all the Sansa chapters as one block for a book. Then all of the Jon ones. etc etc This makes remembering themes and things a lot easier without having the start pause thing.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

you mean........kind of like Dany?

Total, sometimes I wonder if your endgame here is not that you believe these crazy things you write, but perhaps more like you're an angel from heaven set to unite the fandom, as nothing creates consensus so thoroughly as one of your threads.

Wrong. A demon from the pit of Hell sent to make us unite against a common foe so that we aren't all destroyed.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I am more dabbling in certain chapters. I am not on a full re-read. In previous re-reads I did skip her chapters, though this had a lot to do with the fact that I either was re-reading AFFC/ADWD or was reading POV in sequence. So I would read all the Sansa chapters as one block for a book. Then all of the Jon ones. etc etc This makes remembering themes and things a lot easier without having the start pause thing.

I was just curious, thanks for answering. I've actually grown to enjoy some POV chapters and characters more on rereads, if not for a certain character itself, but for all that goes on around them, too. You never know, you might change your mind a bit if you try again. Sometimes, rereads actually have helped me enjoy those POVs I would groan at the first time, although I don't expect the groan from an Aeron chapter to ever go away.

Anyway, I like Arya, but for all that goes on around her, yes in both the books that seem to be your main complaint, I've always thought that made the amount of chapters very worthwhile. Thanks again for the answer.

[aceluby]

I was just curious, thanks for answering. I've actually grown to enjoy some POV chapters and characters more on rereads, if not for a certain character itself, but for all that goes on around them, too. You never know, you might change your mind a bit if you try again. Sometimes, rereads actually have helped me enjoy those POVs I would groan at the first time, although I don't expect the groan from an Aeron chapter to ever go away.

Anyway, I like Arya, but for all that goes on around her, yes in both the books that seem to be your main complaint, I've always thought that made the amount of chapters very worthwhile. Thanks again for the answer.

Yeah, I'm on my reread and the parts I thought were 'boring' the first time around have much more meaning on the re-read. She interacts with Syrio, Jaquen, Lannister bannermen, Vargo Hoat's companions, Roose Bolton, BWB, The Hound, and gives us unique insight on the inner workings of the FM and Braavos. So she brings a lot to the table outside of her personal character development, which IMO is the real interesting part since it's revenge driven. She's not my favorite character, but to complain about the number of chapters she has when those chapters have a ton of interaction with the world of westeros is kind of missing the point of her chapters. IMO, they are there for world building and personal character development.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Yeah, I'm on my reread and the parts I thought were 'boring' the first time around have much more meaning on the re-read. She interacts with Syrio, Jaquen, Lannister bannermen, Vargo Hoat's companions, Roose Bolton, BWB, The Hound, and gives us unique insight on the inner workings of the FM and Braavos. So she brings a lot to the table outside of her personal character development, which IMO is the real interesting part since it's revenge driven. She's not my favorite character, but to complain about the number of chapters she has when those chapters have a ton of interaction with the world of westeros is kind of missing the point of her chapters. IMO, they are there for world building and personal character development.

I love Arya as a character, but yes, I do think it's hard to miss the selling points of all that goes on around her, too. I love a reread, I always start it out with 'clue hunting' or something like that, one specific thing to pay attention to, but usually wind up just getting lost in the whole story, enjoying it.

But, I do think rereads can give deeper appreciation for a POV character in and of itself, too. I highly recommend a reread, a full reread, chapters that cause groans and all, to anyone who's only read once, or has read once and then cherry picks for a second glance. I think, in many ways, the entire song, if you will, does get better each time.

[grand old duke of stark]

Arya is a major character, but compared to the core story of Dany, Jon, maybe Tyrion and possibly fAegon, Arya;s story is deceptively digressive. And to one who is pelting through the books and confronted with so many Arya chapters, they may well seem surplus to requirements. Nonetheless, many posters here have already justified what her ancillary story contributes to the main thrust of the saga. Additionally, there is the likelihood that her story will indeed affect the denouement in a major way.

Moreover some people think the whole saga is ultimately about families, especially Starks and Targaryens. And Arya being a Stark has a unique path which throws considerable light on her family. She, a real survivor despite all the tragedy and horror GRRM throws at her, will probably become an avatar of the survival the the wolves, animal and human.

[Light a wight tonight]

Arya is a major character, but compared to the core story of Dany, Jon, maybe Tyrion and possibly fAegon, Arya;s story is deceptively digressive. And to one who is pelting through the books and confronted with so many Arya chapters, they may well seem surplus to requirements. Nonetheless, many posters here have already justified what her ancillary story contributes to the main thrust of the saga. Additionally, there is the likelihood that her story will indeed affect the denouement in a major way.

Moreover some people think the whole saga is ultimately about families, especially Starks and Targaryens. And Arya being a Stark has a unique path which throws considerable light on her family. She, a real survivor despite all the tragedy and horror GRRM throws at her, will probably become an avatar of the survival the the wolves, animal and human.

There are a number of ways to look at the story. You list Dany first among major characters while quite a few readers dismiss her as peripheral. The way you feel about Arya. If we all agreed on everything the discussions here would be a lot less interesting.

[Techelles]

Whatever the answer, total, it's bound to be better than the one to this question: Why does total have so many whine threads?

Because, total, as you have valiantly argued many times over across several OPs, GRRM is not a very good writer. His plot holes are glaring and many, his ability to craft a compelling narrative sadly and profoundly lacking, and he bends over backwards to stack the plot against Dany. It's a wonder the members of this forum, dedicated as it is to the wretched literary morass GRRM has created, don't flee in droves, having been bathed repeatedly in the light of your wisdom.

total, seriously, you have no idea why GRRM has chosen to write the amount of chapters he did for certain characters or how their stories are going to end and what impact they will have on ASOIAF, so why do you believe that what YOU want for certain characters is more important than what GRRM, the author of the fucking series, wants?

If you have so many 'concerns' about ASOIAF and GRRM's choices, feel free to contact him, and stop bothering us (the people who actually appreciate the story) with your badly covered-up complaints.

I stand in awe, gentlemen.

As for the question itself, isn't it obvious? Not only do Arya's chapters give us insight into both the character development of one of Ned's surviving children and the harsh realities of war in the Riverlands, they also serve to set up many events and characters that will come into play later on.

Sandor Clegane is alive, and it was Arya who gave us a window into, and even helped facilitate, his transformation from the Hound into the novice gravedigger on the Quiet Isle. Many think that his story is not yet over. He's not too far from the Vale. I'd say it's not at all unlikely that he will cross paths with Sansa Stark again. If so, then all the time spent on his character (via Arya) will be very relevant. Not that it would be irrelevant otherwise, of course.

Arya is our eyes inside the Brotherhood Without Banners, which is a force in and of itself in the Riverlands. They've thrown in with Lady Stoneheart, meaning that they are fighting the Frey/Lannister presence in the region. You can bet this will be very important in the books ahead, especially if the GNC pans out, which seems likely, at least to an extent. We already know that Stoneheart has been seen "disappearing into the Neck," which is where Howland Reed is hiding out with the bearers of Robb's will. But even without the GNC, The BWB will absolutely play a role in shifting the balance of power in the Riverlands. Tom o' Sevens' presence at River Run makes it clear that the Brotherhood has plans for the seat of House Tully. And there are dozens of high-value prisoners out on the road that are ripe for the rescuing, including Edmure and the Greatjon. If anyone is organizing a rescue, it's the Brotherhood.

And speaking of Stoneheart, Arya's adventures with Thoros and Beric are essential to foreshadowing and providing a precedent for Catelyn's resurrection. Arya is also the one who (via dream warging) makes the resurrection possible by pulling Catelyn's body out of the river and protecting it from the wolves until Beric arrives. Without Arya and the BWB, there is no Stoneheart, which would be a shame, because her story has already tied back into the arcs of Jaime and Brienne. Everything is connected, total. You ought to know that. Stoneheart and the Brotherhood undeniably required the kind of groundwork laid in Arya's chapters.

Arya's time as Weasel shows us how Harrenhal passed from the Lannisters to Roose Bolton. It's from her that we get our first good look into Roose's character and the first hints of his eventual betrayal. Roose's occupation of Harrenhal marks a turning point in the Wot5K, but not in the Starks' favor, contrary to initial appearances. Also, obviously, Harrenhal is where we are first truly exposed to a Faceless Man, which sets Arya on the path to her training in Braavos, which in turn will be the source of a very young girl's agency in the coming books.

Arya's chat with Edric Dayne about Wylla and Ashara provides some very tantalizing tidbits about the parentage of Jon Snow. The scene not only keeps House Dayne and the mystery of Jon's mother in our thoughts, it also folds into all the other evidence for R+L=J, which to all appearances is going to be a major plot point later on.

Arya also comes into contact with the woods witch whom Ser Barristan mentioned in ADwD. That shriveled little creature gives us prophecies that come true, some of which are still pending. She's also a Child of the Forest, and her presence in the Riverlands foreshadows the CotF colony discovered by Bran and clues us in that the Old Gods still have some sort of relevance and power. She's the one who foretold that the PtwP would come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella, which means her appearance ties in with one of the largest plot points in the books: who is the prince that was promised? She hints at what happened at Summerhall, an event that looms large in the prophecy-related lore of the series. It's all important.

Point is, if you give half a damn about the world GRRM is building and the plot he is very carefully crafting, Arya's chapters have enormous relevance, both in the moment and for the future. That is why they are there. Once again, it would help if you'd wait for the story to develop before you bitch about how half of what GRRM has written is meaningless. The story is not over, so don't be so quick to pass judgment on things you do not understand. As Gandalf said, even the very wise cannot see all ends...and total, buddy, you're no Gandalf.

[Florina Laufeyson]

Whatever the answer, total, it's bound to be better than the one to this question: Why does total have so many whine threads?

I stand in awe, gentlemen.

As for the question itself, isn't it obvious? Not only do Arya's chapters give us insight into the character development of one of Ned's surviving children and the harsh realities of war in the Riverlands, they also serve to set up many events and characters that will come into play later on.

Sandor Clegane is alive, and it was Arya who gave us a window into, and even helped facilitate, his transformation from the Hound into the novice gravedigger on the Quite Isle. Many think that his story is not yet over. He's not too far from the Vale. I'd say it's not at all unlikely that he will cross paths with Sansa Stark again. If so, then all the time spent on his character (via Arya) will be very relevant. Not that it would be irrelevant otherwise, of course.

Arya is our eyes inside the Brotherhood Without Banners, which is a force in and of itself in the Riverlands. They've thrown in with Lady Stoneheart, meaning that they are fighting the Frey/Lannister presence in the region. You can bet this will be very important in the books ahead, especially if the GNC pans out, which seems likely, at least to an extent. We already know that Stoneheart has been seen "disappearing into the Neck," which is where Howland Reed is hiding out with the bearers of Robb's will. But even without the GNC, The BWB will absolutely play a role in shifting the balance of power in the Riverlands. Tom o' Sevens' presence at River Run makes it clear that the Brotherhood has plans for the seat of House Tully. And there are dozens of high-value prisoners out on the road that are ripe for the rescuing, including Edmure and the Greatjon. If anyone is organizing a rescue, it's the Brotherhood.

And speaking of Stoneheart, Arya's time with Thoros and Beric is essential to foreshadowing and providing a precedent for Catelyn's resurrection. Arya is also the one who (via dream warging) makes the resurrection possible by pulling Catelyn's body out of the river and protecting it from the wolves until Beric arrives. Without Arya and the BWB, there is no Stoneheart, which would be a shame, because her story has already tied back into the arcs of Jaime and Brienne. Everything is connected, total. You ought to know that.

Arya's time as Weasel shows us how Harrenhal passed from the Lannisters to Roose Bolton. It's from her that we get our first good look into Roose's character and the first hints of his eventual betrayal. Roose's occupation of Harrenhal marks a turning point in the Wot5K, but not in the Starks' favor, contrary to initial appearances. Also, obviously, Harrenhal is where we are first truly exposed to a Faceless Man, which sets Arya on the path to her training in Braavos, which in turn will be the source of a very young girl's agency in the coming books.

Arya's chat with Edric Dayne about Wylla and Ashara provides some very tantalizing tidbits about the parentage of Jon Snow. The scene not only keeps House Dayne and the mystery of Jon's mother in our thoughts, it also folds into all the other evidence for R+L=J, which to all appearances is going to be a major plot point later on.

Point is, if you give half a damn about the world GRRM is building and the plot he is very carefully crafting, Arya's chapters have enormous relevance, both in the moment and for the future. That is why they are there. Once again, it would help if you'd wait for the story to develop before you bitch about how half of what GRRM has written is meaningless. The story is not over. So don't be so quick to pass judgment on things you do not understand. As Gandalf said, even the very wise cannot see all ends...and total, buddy, you're no Gandalf.

Now it is my turn to stand in awe, ser.

:bowdown:

[Mladen]

snip

Now it is my turn to stand in awe, ser.

:bowdown:

I concur...

[Pero the first of His name]

Wrong. A demon from the pit of Hell sent to make us unite against a common foe so that we aren't all destroyed.

Tyrion has dug too greedily and too deep in Casterly Rock and awakened a fiery demon of the ancient world?

[LordStoneheart]

This thread is still going on? I think at this point it should be well established that Arya is necessary and interesting. Now where's that "why doesn't Arya have more chapters?" thread?...

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Tyrion has dug too greedily and too deep in Casterly Rock and awakened a fiery demon of the ancient world?

exactly