Why do people think that Jon+Dany is incest?

[random girl from westeros]

they will never be together. this is not twilight. so it doesn't matter

Thank you

[Greymoon]

haven't read every post but... there is an incest taboo in every human society. How incest is defined might vary, but even in such societies were cousin marriages are allowed or frequent, its mostly not every kind and all cousins that can marry. In some societies it's only “parallel cousins,” (the daughter/son of your mum’s sister or dad’s brother – children from same-sex siblings) in others its “cross cousins” (the son/daughter or your mum’s brother, or dad’s sister – children from opposite-sex siblings). Sometimes the parallel cousin on your mum’s side is allowed but the one on your father’s side is taboo etc...besides among royalty in ancient Egypt I don't know of any other society where aunt/nephew or uncle/niece were allowed to marry, so it’s pretty much considered incest in most societies I'd say; Westeros wouldn’t be an exception besides for Targaryens but even then the common folk perceive the practice as immoral.

[Tyrion1991]

OP-

Because she is his aunt.

Do you have an aunt? Or a nephew? Just imagine having sex with them. Grossed out? You should be. Its the same with the idea of these two getting together.

[CosimaistheHottest]

haven't read every post but... there is an incest taboo in every human society. How incest is defined might vary, but even in such societies were cousin marriages are allowed or frequent, its mostly not every kind and all cousins that can marry. In some societies it's only “parallel cousins,” (the daughter/son of your mum’s sister or dad’s brother – children from same-sex siblings) in others its “cross cousins” (the son/daughter or your mum’s brother, or dad’s sister – children from opposite-sex siblings). Sometimes the parallel cousin on your mum’s side is allowed but the one on your father’s side is taboo etc...besides among royalty in ancient Egypt I don't know of any other society where aunt/nephew or uncle/niece were allowed to marry, so it’s pretty much considered incest in most societies I'd say; Westeros wouldn’t be an exception besides for Targaryens but even then the common folk perceive the practice as immoral.

Philip II of Spain and Anna of Austria, his niece. His sister was her mother

Joanna of Naples and Ferdinand II of Naples, her nephew

Pedro III of Portgual and Maria of Portugal, his niece

There are more. It happens. It just isn't as common as cousin marriages. They were rare but it did happen.

[Tyrion1991]

Philip II of Spain and Anna of Austria, his niece. His sister was her mother

Joanna of Naples and Ferdinand II of Naples, her nephew

Pedro III of Portgual and Maria of Portugal, his niece

There are more. It happens. It just isn't as common as cousin marriages.

The Habsburgs incest was notorious. It led to odd genetic traits like the "Habsburg jaw" which was so prominent they actually couldn't chew properly. The last Habsburg king of Spain was insane and his reign was ruinous on the whole Empire. Not exactly selling the idea that incest works there. :D

[CosimaistheHottest]

The Habsburgs incest was notorious. It led to odd genetic traits like the "Habsburg jaw" which was so prominent they actually couldn't chew properly. The last Habsburg king of Spain was insane and his reign was ruinous on the whole Empire. Not exactly selling the idea that incest works there. :D

Well, I am just saying it happens and the Targaryens are also notorious. The Habsburgs didn't even do brother-sister incest. As we have seen with the Targaryens, our world genetics and their world genetics don't work same. Does anyone really believe that after that much incest that the Targaryens would still be so beautiful and that the only things that would be wrong with them are feebleness not much and madness not much either? Not even the feebleness seems to detract from beauty.

[Free Northman]

It certainly does not bother me. Where I come from uncles marry their nieces and cousins marry each other all the time. Especially in the villages. It's neither illegal nor frowned upon.

The tradition is less frequent these days because of people being more aware of familial diseases being passed through genes. It's not a social issue, it's a medical and scientific issue. People are realizing that inbreeding is not healthy.

As for Westeros, the issue is not going to be a problem for the Targs (Dany, Aegon). I am not sure about Jon.

Where the hell do you come from exactly? Since the Hills may well have Eyes around there, remind me never to take a Wrong Turn in that direction. Else I'll probably never find Deliverance from what may follow.

[SeanF]

Where the hell do you come from exactly? Since the Hills may well have Eyes around there, remind me never to take a Wrong Turn in that direction. Else I'll probably never find Deliverance from what may follow.

Incest is not illegal in a surprisingly large number of countries, some of them quite socially conservative places.

Marriage between parents and children, and siblings, is unrecognised almost everywhere. Some States do recognise marriage between Uncle/Niece Aunt/Nephew.

[Gneisenau]

What's wrong with incest ?

[SeanF]

What's wrong with incest ?

Inbreeding causes genetic defects. Charles II of Spain is what you end up with.

[Gneisenau]

Inbreeding causes genetic defects. Charles II of Spain is what you end up with.

What if Dany can't have kids ?

[SeanF]

What if Dany can't have kids ?

If she's Queen of Westeros, she calls a Great Council, and gets them to agree an heir.

[BericDondarrion]

It's considered incest because its disgusting. It's like if Robb Stark married Lysa Arryn.

[Annara Snow]

Well, I am just saying it happens and the Targaryens are also notorious. The Habsburgs didn't even do brother-sister incest. As we have seen with the Targaryens, our world genetics and their world genetics don't work same. Does anyone really believe that after that much incest that the Targaryens would still be so beautiful and that the only things that would be wrong with them are feebleness not much and madness not much either? Not even the feebleness seems to detract from beauty.

Yes. Contrary to popular belief, inbreeding does not necessarily produce freaks with pig tails and two heads. ;) What we saw in X-Files episode "Home" was a product of writers' imagination and something that doesn't ever actually happen in real life. What inbreeding does is increase the chance of people suffering from congenital /disorders; if there is congenital disorder running in the family that practices inbreeding over an increased period of time, it's likely that some members of the family - not all - will suffer from that disorder. Now, some of the disorders manifest themselves as "ugly features", like the Habsburg jaw, but many others don't. If the Targaryens didn't have recessive genes for the genetic disorders that involve being "ugly", those features are not going to come out of nowhere.

Also, the percentage of risk of genetic disorders is lower than people tend to think; if you went by popular opinion, you'd think that every offspring of close relatives will be a monster.

[Annara Snow]

It's considered incest because its disgusting.

I think you got that one backwards.

Walder Frey and his latest wife is disgusting - but that doesn't make it incest (and as far as I know it's not, though you never know with these nobles...)

What's wrong with incest ?

Inbreeding causes genetic defects. Charles II of Spain is what you end up with.

If that were all that's wrong with incest, then people would consider it OK as long as the parent/child or siblings use contraception, or one of them is infertile, or they only have oral and anal sex .

[Spartan64Destiny]

It wouldn't be considered incest in Vidor Texas........lol!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[CosimaistheHottest]

Yes. Contrary to popular belief, inbreeding does not necessarily produce freaks with pig tails and two heads. ;) What we saw in X-Files episode "Home" was a product of writers' imagination and something that doesn't ever actually happen in real life. What inbreeding does is increase the chance of people suffering from congenital /disorders; if there is congenital disorder running in the family that practices inbreeding over an increased period of time, it's likely that some members of the family - not all - will suffer from that disorder. Now, some of the disorders manifest themselves as "ugly features", like the Habsburg jaw, but many others don't. If the Targaryens didn't have recessive genes for the genetic disorders that involve being "ugly", those features are not going to come out of nowhere.

Also, the percentage of risk of genetic disorders is lower than people tend to think; if you went by popular opinion, you'd think that every offspring of close relatives will be a monster.

I know the risks of incest. I know that they don't all lead to deformity, but I also know that they don't produce what the Targaryens are considered just beautiful and mad. I know that they should be much sicker than they are. If not the Targaryen genes themselves with recessive traits than the other genes that have been brought into the family from few outside sources. But lefts be honest would people really root for the Targaryens if they were incestous and ugly. Not a chance.

[BlackDragon]

As far as I can tell, in Westeros incest only applies to siblings, not cousins or aunts/uncles. Different societies have different standards, cousin marriage is considered a norm in many places around the world today and that's not going to change any time soon.

Is a Jon/Dany relationship going to be considered incest in Westeros? Probably not, in most of our world yes, but not by the Westerosi. So why do people keep applying 21st century standards to Westeros? Lysa Tully was a child when she married Jon Arryn but the marriage happened anyway.

Incest is Incest if Jon really is the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar( which I think he is) then Dany is his Aunt and thus any relationship between them is incest, now back in the back in the day it wasn't all that wierd to see cousin married to cousin or aunt to nephew etc.

[Rhymes with Weak]

I think Ygritte's whole spiel about "Yah cahn't marry insid yur clahn, Jun Snuw" was geared towards this particular issue. She lays the northern perspective of incest down quite nicely.

[The Black Prince]

In rl a relationship between cousins is not incest, but aunt and nephew would be. I'm not aware of any aunt and nephew pairing in westeros, but this may be why Joanna and Tywin is fine, but others not. So dany+Jon could be considered incest in westeros.

Rhaenyra (if I got the name right), the mother of Aegon III married her uncle.