Why do people hate Tyrion?

[N/A]

about the shae debacle "one does not lie with dogs and wake without fleas"

his fault for being too blind to see her for what she really was ,ironically he kept repeating that she was a whore in his thoughts

[Lady Isobel]

He gets a lot of flack for ADWD, but IMO I think it really shows how good of a writer GRRM is. Who wouldn't constantly be thinking about his misdeeds after going from a rich Lannister, heir to CR, to a murdering kinslayer, nothing to his name, betrayed by everyone he's cared about, a price on his head, and no direction of what to do. If he would have stayed the little witty man from AGOT he would easily be my most disliked character because who could do that after his recent events? I think ADWD makes Tyrion's character because it shows depth.

So do I. Most POV characters have gone through tremendous changes throughout the books, how could Tyrion not sulk after everything that's happened to him? Plus I think he's dealing with his situation quite well. He's trying to make a comeback, otherwise he would have eaten his poison mushrooms a lot of chapters ago.

[Lady Isobel]

He reached a low point and made mistakes. Shae was a tragedy, an awful crime of passion. Don't shed a tear for Tywin, he was a sadistic wanker to his own son - and deserved what his son repaid.

:agree:

[Chaircat Meow]

I think Tyrion is great. He is my favourite character. His DwD arc doesn't annoy me, and tbh I think it is better than the wall storyline. However, it is important not to mix up appreciating character in a book and thinking you have to excuse everything they've done though. Sometimes Tyrion's haters do try and make a meal out of certain acts (like the people who object to his defending KL with wildfire), but Tyrion does some reprehensible things too. Tyrion's humanistic impulses in conflict with his darker desires are central to his character.

[Petyr Patter]

And why did she need protection in the first place? Because Tyrion moved her to KL under a pending death threat from Tywin and couldn't even let her go when the danger grew imminent.

Well, to be fair, he did plan to send her away and maybe arrange a marriage for her a couple of times, but Shae seemed to want to keep milking her meal ticket. I think what really cemented Shae's fate was just how harshly she testifies against him at his trial. She didn't just come forward and say, "Tyrion told me he wanted to kill the king." She told the court that he was a monster who robbed her of her innocence and actively planned on seizing the throne one corpse at a time. I mean, damn! Her crime is pretty similar to Littlefinger's. Did she deserve death? I don't think so, all things considered. Without Cersei bribing her and/or threatening her, she probably was harmless, but she actively sealed Tyrion's fate with some out there lies.

[Lady Isobel]

OP,

I fucking love Tyrion, so I don't know what you are talking about.

But do please give me a ring if you find out why (assuming this thread doesn't get derailed soon).

I know, I'm still not getting it either..

[SimonSez]

I think he's too much like his brother: yes they are both flawed in good ways, but in the end, they are both insulated (by their wealth, abilities and position) from the real world.

Did he really believe that paying Bronn and Shae would make them loyal to him forever? Also, that's not his money he's using to buy them, it's Tywin's. Of course his father's angry that Tyrion brought a whore to court.

He claims to use his drawfness as an armor, but he still wants to be genuinely loved.

He's lost my favor while Jamie's gained it.

[Lady Isobel]

Well, to be fair, he did plan to send her away and maybe arrange a marriage for her a couple of times, but Shae seemed to want to keep milking her meal ticket. I think what really cemented Shae's fate was just how harshly she testifies against him at his trial. She didn't just come forward and say, "Tyrion told me he wanted to kill the king." She told the court that he was a monster who robbed her of her innocence and actively planned on seizing the throne one corpse at a time. I mean, damn! Her crime is pretty similar to Littlefinger's. Did she deserve death? I don't think so, all things considered. Without Cersei bribing her and/or threatening her, she probably was harmless, but she actively sealed Tyrion's fate with some out there lies.

I'm still not sure that she wasn't Tywin's instrument all along. He might have used her to keep an eye on Tyrion, who being very clever kept his guard up most of the time but unfortunately for him really needed to feel loved and accepted. The fact that Tywin kept insisting that Tyrion shouldn't bring his whore to Court makes me wonder if he wasn't just trying to make him do the opposite thing (given their antagonistic relationship).

[1234567]

She was a whore in a brothel and he paid her, that was bussines not repw IMO. She didn't enjoy sleeping with him but let's be realistic, that is probably something that would happen quite often in her line of bussines, I'm pretty sure most men who go tho brothels are not like Jaime.

She was a slave forced into prostitution who had whip marks on her back. Slavery is illegal in Westeros on pain of death. Think of Hildy in Django: wouldn't you call what happened to her rape and the men who slept with her rapists? I sure would.

Other than that, Tyrion was once my favourite characters (until the Sansa marriage). On re-reads I realised how incredibly self pitying he is and his wit is often unkind to people who have done nothing to him. Also things I had had just not noticed the first time around like breaking Marillion's Fingers because he made the type of joke that Tyrion makes himself, his refusal to even try to control the Clansmen who are committing rapes and murders in KL etc. began to make me realise he is not actually just the nice, funny, unfairly judged character I first thought he was.

The plot armour is also getting ridiculous.

Saying that he is one of the best written characters in the series.

[A wilding]

Well, to be fair, he did plan to send her away and maybe arrange a marriage for her a couple of times, but Shae seemed to want to keep milking her meal ticket.

To be fair, whatever he was thinking, he gave her the clear impression that he intended to send her away without a penny - and in the end this is basically what he did. No wonder she wanted to try and stay to to milk him first instead. Now if he had set up some sort of arrangement for her to be looked after, a trivial thing for him, well maybe things would have turned out differently - and if not, at least the case for his defence would be stronger.

[Lady Isobel]

I don't hate him but I just really dislike how fucking weird/ gross/one dimensional his inner monologue has become. With septa Lemore every other sentence was "something something want to fuck you". Seriously he's a noseless, deformed dwarf how much game does he think he has?

So only attractive people are allowed to have desires? :stunned:

She was swimming naked everyday for all the world to see, most men would think about sleeping with her IMO

[Jimmy is not No One]

I like Tyrion. Throughout most of the books he's provided some pretty good entertainment. He had one of the worst family situations; he is blamed for his mothers death, his father treats him like he's a bastard, his sister believes he will be the one who tries to kill all of her children, and his brother (who is the only one to kind of be nice to him) becomes part of the kingsgaurd and therefore isn't around. Where ever he goes, he is mocked and laughed at by all. Its a pretty rough life to lead. And still, after all of that, he goes out of his way in certain situations to be nice to people, helping Bran ride a horse, helping Jon at the wall. Not saying he is an all around good guy, but he has at least some compassion.

Then he is found guilty of murder, Shae completely and utterly betrays him, finds out his dad has been sleeping with her too, and finds out about the whole Tysha situation. Anyone would snap in that situation.

In ADWD, he is not a pleasant character, and yes he has a lot of plot armour, which is annoying. However, I think he will get out of his funk and will have some good chapters in TWOW.

[Fightbringer]

i dont know about everyone else but there seems to be a ridiculous number of 'why do people hate x character' and that character often seems to have little hating on them actually going on. Tyrion is probably the most popular character in asoiaf. The fact he had non consensual sex with a prostitute is bad, but she's a prostitute, so does she ever have sex with someone she actually wants to have sex with?

In fact, that and the other dark stuff he does in aDwD actually adds to his character, as one of my favourite things about him is that he is not really a villian or a hero, he's a bit of both, so the evasion of being a complete good guy works in his favour, my main complaint against tyrion in the show is that he is a bit too good, you dont see anything like the symon star eyes thing which shows that he isnt a wholly good person

[nirolo]

It would appear that a thread on Tyrion is a bigger crowd pleaser than one on Stannis. Who would've guessed.

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

On topic --

I think many disprove of Tyrion because of his actions and state of mind in ADWD. He certainly did himself no favor by killing Shae or by raping the whore in Volantis. He also falls on the darker side of the moral spectrum. So I'm sure people have good reasons to dislike him.

Still, I lurve him. :commie:

[Lady Isobel]

To be fair, whatever he was thinking, he gave her the clear impression that he intended to send her away without a penny - and in the end this is basically what he did. No wonder she wanted to try and stay to to milk him first instead. Now if he had set up some sort of arrangement for her to be looked after, a trivial thing for him, well maybe things would have turned out differently - and if not, at least the case for his defence would be stronger.

Now you are being unfair, he did give her a golden necklace..

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I love Tyrion as a character, but as a person he is horrible. He murders without thought, he rapes, he tries to cripple people for minor insults. Not a good guy at all.

Please try to separate between an interesting character and a morally upstanding guy. That's two very different things. Tyrion doesn't need to be whitewashed to enjoy his arc.

Well, to be fair, he did plan to send her away and maybe arrange a marriage for her a couple of times, but Shae seemed to want to keep milking her meal ticket. I think what really cemented Shae's fate was just how harshly she testifies against him at his trial. She didn't just come forward and say, "Tyrion told me he wanted to kill the king." She told the court that he was a monster who robbed her of her innocence and actively planned on seizing the throne one corpse at a time. I mean, damn! Her crime is pretty similar to Littlefinger's. Did she deserve death? I don't think so, all things considered. Without Cersei bribing her and/or threatening her, she probably was harmless, but she actively sealed Tyrion's fate with some out there lies.

Maybe he should have told her that. As far as Shae knew, he was throwing her out without a penny.

[Katerine459]

Wait... what? People hate Tyrion? Since when? He's one of the most beloved characters in this universe, as far as I knew. Especially since the actor that plays him is easily the most charismatic in the TV show. In the books, he's pretty consistently in the top 10.

If anything, I can see people complaining that he's overrated (thanks, largely, to Peter Dinklage), but not hating him.

When I skimmed this thread just now (yes, I'm sorry), I did see complaints that basically boil down to, "I don't like his personality or some of his actions," which is fine. GRRM wrote just about every kind of personality and way of thinking that exists in humanity, and Tyrion is a very complex character who definitely has flaws (he's reckless, sometimes prone to self-pity, and completely ruthless). I love him even more for them, myself. :)

"Ruthless," btw, is defined as, "willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your end goal." It does not mean that a person doesn't have a conscience, just that they believe that the ends justify the means. And ruthlessness is not quite the same as cruelty, even though it can look the same from the outside. Cruelty exists for its own sake. Except when he's being vindictive (which Tyrion can sometimes be, such as when he lashes out at Jaime at the end of ASOS), Tyrion is never cruel for the sake of being cruel. (contrast with, say, Joffrey. Or any of the Brave Companions, or Ramsay).

[Jory Cassel]

Well, to be fair, he did plan to send her away and maybe arrange a marriage for her a couple of times, but Shae seemed to want to keep milking her meal ticket. I think what really cemented Shae's fate was just how harshly she testifies against him at his trial. She didn't just come forward and say, "Tyrion told me he wanted to kill the king." She told the court that he was a monster who robbed her of her innocence and actively planned on seizing the throne one corpse at a time. I mean, damn! Her crime is pretty similar to Littlefinger's. Did she deserve death? I don't think so, all things considered. Without Cersei bribing her and/or threatening her, she probably was harmless, but she actively sealed Tyrion's fate with some out there lies.

Oh, he planned. How nice of him. Of course Shae wanted to stay with him, she has hit gold in getting him as a customer, and she herself wasn't aware of the threat that Cersei and Tywin posed, or did he tell her about Tywin's threat or Alayaya? Nope.

As for the testimony at the trial, Shae was a minor figure in the power play of the mighty one's, what do you expect her to do, stand up for Tyrion and die, or try to ingratiate herself with the ones in power as much as possible? I really can't blame her for doing the latter.

[1234567]

Now you are being unfair, he did give her a golden necklace..

I think that's only in the show.

[David Selig]

Unlike almost everyone else in the series, I like the way Tyrion's written less with each reread. Not sure about the reason, maybe it's that many of his jokes are of the "only funny once, then really annoying" type, maybe it's the nonstop whining (and not just in his head, which I don't mind much - he complains a bunch of people he meets, and a lot of his whining is about relatively minor stuff), maybe it's the way he blames every bad thing that happens to him on being a dwarf and hardly ever blames himself.