Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Stubby

R + L = J v 63

Recommended Posts

Makes sense. Actually, I meant "immediately before" as "a few days before Ned's arrival". So, anyone estimated how long it took Ned to arrive at the ToJ? How much time did the news have to arrive before him?

It's several hundred miles and he had to go via Storms' End. IIRC, we're talking about 4-6 weeks.

ETA: Alright, this time theguyfromthevale ninjaed me :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. It was stupid of me to hope that GRRM might have elaborated, I know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I think they were protecting their new king. Yet it just occurred to me that they couldn't have known it would be a king. Jon was either born almost immediately before Ned's arrival or shortly after.

How could have the KG known that the child would be a king and not a princess? As far as we can say, Rhaegar probably expected a Visenya. No one there could have known whether the baby would be a boy. For all the KG knew, after the sack of KL Viserys might have become their new king, yet they stood to guard Lyanna and her baby.

I'd say Rhaegar's orders were pretty important. The KG couldn't have known that they were not breaking their vow to protect the king right to the moment the child was born. There definitely was some sort of conflict and they obviously chose what path to follow since it was not clear cut.

@ KG learning of the sack and knowing that Jon and not Viserys is their king:

Considering that Jon's birth is placed within one month after the sack, the only necessity here is that Jon has to be born before news of the Trident and the sack reach the KG at the ToJ.

So the only requirement for the KG to be in accordance with their main duty is that the news arrived after Jon was born, that could be from two weeks to a month, all plausible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, for a brief intermission and an episode of "Sister Wives of Westeros."

To: Princess Elia, (i.e., SISTER wife)!

From: Princess Lyanna, (i.e. SISTER wife)!

Re: Your "Vacation" in Dorne.

Dear Elia,

Can I ask WHEN THE HELL YOU ARE COMING BACK?!

IS RHAELLA WITH YOU!?

I didn't sign up for this- no way.

Last year, I just wanted adventure, travel and see the world.

Now I have all these kids to take of, including Rhaellas!

I NEED HELP HERE!!!!!!!

YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHARGE!

YOU ARE WIFE NUMBER ONE!!!!!!!!

Really?

Lets do a head count here:

With Me?

1. Rhaenys- No one told me she's in the terrible two's.

2. Aegon- Aegon is teething. Did you know that?

3. Jon- Jon and his twin Sister Wylla BOTH have gas.

I change clothes four times a day.

Nan is up to her tooth in smallclothes!

And now Brandon and Ned have dropped their kids off while they go "hunting" Greyjoys

(I'm not buying that crap because Ashara and Cat went with them)!

I think they went to Las Essos to hit the casinos.

Now, Cats nutjob sister, (you remember her), wants to drop her kid off too!

I said: HELL NO!

Not until he's weaned, which will be thirty two.

What am I running here?

"Kings Landing Royal Romper Room?!"

You get back here!

(And you can bring your little friend Aldo, the Pool Boy- didn't think we knew about that did you)?

SINCERELY,

Princess "this is bullshit" Lyanna

Dear Princess "Life is sweet" Elia,

Then I demand a raise, or a cost-of-living adjustment. The expense report you based my allowance on was bogus, and didn't account for everyone's kids.

Sincerely,

Princess "I've been had in more ways than one," Lyanna.

You are seriously the best at these :thumbsup: :D

The closest I've come up with is the meme of altering the chorus of Carly Rae Jepsen's song "Call Me Maybe"

Rhaegar to Lyanna:

"Hey I just met you

And this is crazy

But to save the wo-orld

You'll have to have my baby!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The answer to the clue killer is Sansa in the Ballroom with a poisoned lemon cake. Professor Baelish was the unfortunate victim.

Way to go, Sansa!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's several hundred miles and he had to go via Storms' End. IIRC, we're talking about 4-6 weeks.

ETA: Alright, this time theguyfromthevale ninjaed me :-)

Depends, Martin does not fall into a lot of logistical requirements. Generally something took how ever long he said it did. He may have it as week or two, you never know with him. It's not a huge focus for his work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To: Lyanna Stark

From: His Grace Aerys Targaryen, King of Andals, Rhoynar and First Men Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, popularly called Mad King

Subject: Welcome to the family

My dearest second daughter-in-law,

Allow me to congratulate you on the happy events that took place this month. I was so joyous and proud to hear that my boy, whom I have doubted for so long, has returned to Targaryen old ways and proved that his papa was right all along. For which father wouldn't be so excited to find out his son has now two wives. Between us, I hope you will prove to be more high maintenance than my dear first daughter-in-law, and that you will occupy my dearest boy in activities that will take his mind from plotting against me. I am forever in your debt for you did amazing job in pointing out that my son would be as good and righteous King as I am, and that there is no need for replacement.

Further more, I have the saddest duty to inform you about tragic events that occurred after you eloped with my dearest son. Your brother, blessed be his memory, has come to King's Landing and was arrested on terrorist charges. My dear, I did everything in my power to show him the righteousness of my ways, but he was so stubborn in getting some sword. Unfortunately, in his attempt to catch a sword his necklace, you know the one you gave him, goit stuck to a machinery I brought from Free Cities. Sadly, he was pushing harder and harder, until he met all his forefathers. But, my dear, that isn't all. Your father also came in King's Landing to represent his son. Due to unknown circumstances, your father had died from severe case of dehydration. Some of my Kingsguard knights watched it, and they were so sick of grief, they actually got sick. But, I hope these tragic events, of whom I am wrongly accused of participating will not interfere in our loving father/daughter relationship. For, trust me, I have never been so grateful to anyone as I am to you...

You, now, only father,

Aerys

To: Rhaegar Targaryen

From: Her Grace Rhaella Targaryen. Queen of Andals, Rhoynar and so on, you know the style

Subject: A family visit

My dearest son,

I miss you terribly. Without you, the Red Keep is even a sadder place than with you in it. There are some lords constantly coming and going, and looking for you. I think they miss you, too. Actually, your new goodfamily pretty much died out of sadness of not being to contact you.

Things are not looking good, my dearest Rhaegar. The children are uncontrollable. Elia keeps crying when she thinks there's no one watching. I am pretty much pissed off with her. I tried to get Lewyn to take her and the children to Dorne so they could become dear Doran's problem but your sweet father has become quite attached to them and wouldn't let them go, so I have to put up with them.

Oh and dearest? This prophecy you've been talking about since you were a child? You are aware that it only says "The PWWP would be born of Aerys and Rhaella's line", right? There's no mentioning of you there. And since your father has recently become so fond of my company, I suggest you get your sorry ass here ASAP before someone else steals the prophecy from you, Besides, I could really use some help since the KG would not meddle into little family quarrels.

Your (angry) mother

Rhaella

:lol: :bowdown:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are seriously the best at these :thumbsup: :D

The closest I've come up with is the meme of altering the chorus of Carly Rae Jepsen's song "Call Me Maybe"

Rhaegar to Lyanna:

"Hey I just met you

And this is crazy

But to save the wo-orld

You'll have to have my baby!"

Oh that's awesome. :bowdown:

And Thanks. :wub:

There are a lot of really smart people on here who are also funny. I think it's okay to be both.

I think I got the idea from "Big Love," because apparently in the Mormon community where there is that "sister wife" concept, it's not just about all the wives being married to the one man, but the fact they're just as "married" to each other, and the relationships between the wives, which were hysterical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how I missed that either! I love Brian Blessed, although my favorite role of his is Richard IV in Black Adder :lol:

I'm going through different episodes now. :drool:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:laugh: We could go all day. I suppose I am moved to find some humor in a story so horrifically, and heart-breakingly tragic. But on that note of historical figures, I don't know how I ever missed this BBC show, "Pieces of 8.0."

It stars Brian Blessed, one of my favorite British Actors aside from John Hurt and Derek Jacobi, who also appeared in "I Claudius." Blessed and Mark Addy both have similar "bombastic" characteristics, but the synopsis of the story is that he plays Henry the VII, who with his last wife, Catherine Parr survive into modern times, along with the King of France and Pope Gregory, and they bedevil each other on Twitter and Facebook.

Catherine Parr seems to have adapted and dresses in modern styles while Henry pretty much stays the same. Very funny.

The prevailing theory that Benjen took the Black out of sort of guilt is still a strong theory, but the alternative idea that Benjen, young though he may have been, might have disagreed with Ned on Jons future is interesting too.

The adult Benjen that we see doesn't necessarily strike me as someone who exhibits "contrite" mannerisms, but still seems to be carrying strongly-held beliefs regarding Jon.

I wonder if it's possible if Ned didn't banish Benjen to the Wall for whatever complicity he might have had in R+L, AND to keep him from scheming, plotting, and talking?

Im glad to have found a new angle :)

The wiki says Benjen joined the NW shortly after Robert's Rebellion which ended in 283. So maybe as late as 284. AGOT begins in 298 and Ned is 35. Im not sure of Benjen's age but i know he is younger. If he was 30 in 298 then he was 15-16 when he joined NW in 283-284.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Benjen_Stark

This timeline says Benjen was born in 269. Making him 14-15 when he joined the NW in 283-284.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/92904-early-stark-timeline-and-5-she-wolves/?fromsearch=1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im glad to have found a new angle :)

The wiki says Benjen joined the NW shortly after Robert's Rebellion which ended in 283. So maybe as late as 284. AGOT begins in 298 and Ned is 35. Im not sure of Benjen's age but i know he is younger. If he was 30 in 298 then he was 15-16 when he joined NW in 283-284.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Benjen_Stark

This timeline says Benjen was born in 269. Making him 14-15 when he joined the NW in 283-284.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/92904-early-stark-timeline-and-5-she-wolves/?fromsearch=1

Thanks King Tyrion!!! :bowdown:

That is a great tool.

And yes, I think sometimes aspects of the subtext gets overlooked while rehashing the same theories, especially the nuances of the characters.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ned, but I think if he was willing to shut down Cat, have Jon in her face knowing it hurt her because she didn't know the truth, then he might very well be ruthless enough to send away Benjen who could prove to hard to handle with that secret, as well as perhaps being angry with him for whatever complicity he had in R+L.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks King Tyrion!!! :bowdown:

That is a great tool.

And yes, I think sometimes aspects of the subtext gets overlooked while rehashing the same theories, especially the nuances of the characters.

Don't get me wrong, I love Ned, but I think if he was willing to shut down Cat, have Jon in her face knowing it hurt her because she didn't know the truth, then he might very well be ruthless enough to send away Benjen who could prove to hard to handle with that secret, as well as perhaps being angry with him for whatever complicity he had in R+L.

Ned and Ben don't seem to be at odds though. What I think is interesting is Benjen was intent on avoiding Jon at the wall. I understand a need for formalities and such by Mormont, Aemon, and Donal Noye treated Jon better than Benjen early on. I would say not wanting show favoritism was part of it but he seemed to be taking it a bit far, he is worried about his age, but seriously lacked in the guidance department save once.

I am not sure when he left to join the watch but Robb seem rather attached to him. Flying into a near rage when Yoren mentions Benjen is gone and suggesting he is dead. AGOT ch 24. He almost drew his sword on them. Then of course Bran blurts out that the children of the forest will help him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is at least assumed that Benjen visited Winterfell other times prior to King Robert's visit. It's possible Robb got to know him that way.

Ned might have sent Benjen to the Wall. But Benjen being 14-15 I can see him running away to join the NW while still angry from an argument with Ned over Jon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is at least assumed that Benjen visited Winterfell other times prior to King Robert's visit. It's possible Robb got to know him that way.

Ned might have sent Benjen to the Wall. But Benjen being 14-15 I can see him running away to join the NW while still angry from an argument with Ned over Jon.

Yeah going on his own seems more than plausible. While protective of Jon, Ned seems very family oriented when we meet him and it seems at least part of his appreciation grew from the war and all his losses. I don't know if he would chase Benjen off or make him go to the wall. What he started with Jon and Cat was also before he actually really got to know Cat, while Jon was his blood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"I am not sure when he left to join the watch but Robb seem rather attached to him. Flying into a near rage when Yoren mentions Benjen is gone and suggesting he is dead. AGOT ch 24. He almost drew his sword on them. Then of course Bran blurts out that the children of the forest will help him."

After the which, Maester Luwin proceeds to demonstrate that he and the Citadel that trained him know many things about the lands north of the wall that ain't so. Too bad Osha did not say "You know nothing, Maester Luwin".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting parallel from the prologue of thrones regarding Wylla and Edric Dayne. It's one the first thing we are told in the books. Royce makes a remark about about his wet nurse. "My wet nurse told me much the Same thing. Never believe anything you here at a woman's ..." Go ahead and fill in the blank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ned and Ben don't seem to be at odds though. What I think is interesting is Benjen was intent on avoiding Jon at the wall. I understand a need for formalities and such by Mormont, Aemon, and Donal Noye treated Jon better than Benjen early on. I would say not wanting show favoritism was part of it but he seemed to be taking it a bit far, he is worried about his age, but seriously lacked in the guidance department save once.

I am not sure when he left to join the watch but Robb seem rather attached to him. Flying into a near rage when Yoren mentions Benjen is gone and suggesting he is dead. AGOT ch 24. He almost drew his sword on them. Then of course Bran blurts out that the children of the forest will help him.

At this point, I don't think they need to be at odds, but civil.

You see more aggression in him when he talks to Jon.

"...tit"...but I always thoguht it should have been teat. :shocked:

I'm going for "teat," it just sounds more "functionally" correct. :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×