Lord of Beyond the Wall Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Nope, this is not another thread about "secrets" members of the very special family of the Blood of the Dragon, so not it isn't about Hot Pie, Penny, Shae, Bronn or Tormund's member. This is about something that has bother me ever since i read A Game of Thrones....Where the f..c are the cousins, nephews, uncles, grandfathers, great grandfathers and grand-uncles, etc. This is a family that has hundreds of years of history. There is also the mystery of the Unknown Targaryens, people that appear in the genealogical tree of the royal family but GRMM has not give them names or any story behind this people, for example: 1-The father of King Viserys I and son of King Jaehaerys I and Queen Alysanne, we don't even have a name for him. 2-Viserys I had three sons and one daughter that are unknown, in the case of the boys is assumed that they died early in their life because at least two of them would have be the heir and the Dance of the Dragons would not have happen. 3-Daemon Blackfyre had Aegon, Aemond, Daemon and Haegon plus three others unknown sons one of them the father of the supposed last male Blackfyre Maelys the Montrous. What really happen with those three?. 4- Rhae and Daella Targaryen (Aegon V's sisters) both had descendants but GRRM has not written nothing about them. 5-Aegon V had a daughter called Rhaelle who married with some unknown Baratheon, alos Eggs had three sons: Duncan the Small, Jaehaerys II and a third that remain unknown. Probably there's some more but I've been wondering about this; why has GRMM has let this character without name and history?, why is there an uncle of Aerys II that nobody knows nothing about it and nobody remember about him or talk about him?. Is there a brand of the family that we still have to find, maybe somewhere in Essos? Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Some of them will likely be cleared up in later novels, and some may come up in D&E Tales, if we get all he wants to make there will be nine or more to come and they deal a lot more with the Targaryens. And some, I'm sure, were just put in to fill space. The World book may also illuminate some. I think patience is our only hope for the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Why do the unknown Targaryens warrant discussion more than the gazillion unknown Starks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Why do the unknown Targaryens warrant discussion more than the gazillion unknown Starks? Because no one started a thread called "The Unknown Starks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Because no one started a thread called "The Unknown Starks"Quite the observation there. I guess my point is that the Targs are given way too much special attention for a House that only came to Westeros 300 years ago when there are 8000 year old Ruling families far more worthy of attention and respect.Damn Targs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Quite the observation there. I guess my point is that the Targs are given way too much special attention for a House that only came to Westeros 300 years ago when there are 8000 year old Ruling families far more worthy of attention and respect.Damn Targs...But we are given a lot more Targ names with no info than Starks, textwise anyway, unless you count the Brans, I think there are more of them than Targaryens altogether. :) I like both and wish we had an encyclopedia of them all. Hopefully with our new found connection to the Weirwood Network we will get to find out a lot more about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fightbringer Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 i think its mentioned at some point that the targ family got too big so after a civil war (cant remember if it was was dance of dragons or blackfyre rebellion) efforts were made to only keep one targaryen line (how exactly they did that i dont know) Anyway, as far as we know Aerys had no siblings other than his wife, and before that i'd say a lot of the family died at summerhall, and out of the brothers of aegon v there only daeron left any children, and that was a daughter who is described as 'feeble witted' so she might not have even got married if she lived that long and even if she did it probably wasnt to a targ . So any targs remaining would be from before blackfyre time, and so those lines might have died out, or more likely they only have a female line and so dont have the surname targaryen anymore. If there were anymore targs in westeros after RR, a lot of them would probably flee to Essos anyway given how robert wasn't overly fond of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balaurderaa Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 i think its mentioned at some point that the targ family got too big so after a civil war (cant remember if it was was dance of dragons or blackfyre rebellion) efforts were made to only keep one targaryen line (how exactly they did that i dont know) Anyway, as far as we know Aerys had no siblings other than his wife, and before that i'd say a lot of the family died at summerhall, and out of the brothers of aegon v there only daeron left any children, and that was a daughter who is described as 'feeble witted' so she might not have even got married if she lived that long and even if she did it probably wasnt to a targ . So any targs remaining would be from before blackfyre time, and so those lines might have died out, or more likely they only have a female line and so dont have the surname targaryen anymore. If there were anymore targs in westeros after RR, a lot of them would probably flee to Essos anyway given how robert wasn't overly fond of them Brightflame had a son according to Aemon in GoT but that was presumably off in Essos somewhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Beyond the Wall Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 Because no one started a thread called "The Unknown Starks" Maybe because the Targaryens are the legitimate royal family and the two lead characters in the series are Targaryens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Beyond the Wall Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 Brightflame had a son according to Aemon in GoT but that was presumably off in Essos somewhere So there's possible a brand of the family somewhere in Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Brightflame had a son according to Aemon in GoT but that was presumably off in Essos somewhere So there's possible a brand of the family somewhere in Essos. There is a theory about the Tattered Prince, possible grandson of Aerion Brightflame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Maybe because the Targaryens are the legitimate royal family and the two lead characters in the series are Targaryens? Three for me, I'm a D&E fan too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Maybe because the Targaryens are the legitimate royal family and the two lead characters in the series are Targaryens? Two? Because I count 3 Starks, 1 Targ and 1 Starkaryen. I am not gonna even discuss about the legitimate :bs: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kienn Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Quite the observation there. I guess my point is that the Targs are given way too much special attention for a House that only came to Westeros 300 years ago when there are 8000 year old Ruling families far more worthy of attention and respect.Damn Targs... There are discussions about unknown Starks too... i.e. Ned's mother. As for the thousands of others.. relevancy. <300 years ago is more relevant than 8000 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Valicious Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I must admit that I always wondered what happened to Aerion's son and Daeron's feeble-witted daughter. Aegon didn't strike me like someone who would have harmed them, so it is possible they reached adulthood and had children... Before reading theories here I thought that (f)Aegon was most likely the descendant of one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wynter Manderly Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 ... Probably there's some more but I've been wondering about this; why has GRMM has let this character without name and history?, why is there an uncle of Aerys II that nobody knows nothing about it and nobody remember about him or talk about him?. Is there a brand of the family that we still have to find, maybe somewhere in Essos? Thoughts? i think it's for possibilities and mystery, that way you can wonder about them. In the same vein as GRRM will not (?) make a complete asoiaf map/globe. but do you guys think its to late now to introduce another "secret" or overlooked targaryen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Nope, this is not another thread about "secrets" members of the very special family of the Blood of the Dragon, so not it isn't about Hot Pie, Penny, Shae, Bronn or Tormund's member. This is about something that has bother me ever since i read A Game of Thrones....Where the f..c are the cousins, nephews, uncles, grandfathers, great grandfathers and grand-uncles, etc. This is a family that has hundreds of years of history. There is also the mystery of the Unknown Targaryens, people that appear in the genealogical tree of the royal family but GRMM has not give them names or any story behind this people, for example: 1-The father of King Viserys I and son of King Jaehaerys I and Queen Alysanne, we don't even have a name for him. 2-Viserys I had three sons and one daughter that are unknown, in the case of the boys is assumed that they died early in their life because at least two of them would have be the heir and the Dance of the Dragons would not have happen. 3-Daemon Blackfyre had Aegon, Aemond, Daemon and Haegon plus three others unknown sons one of them the father of the supposed last male Blackfyre Maelys the Montrous. What really happen with those three?. 4- Rhae and Daella Targaryen (Aegon V's sisters) both had descendants but GRRM has not written nothing about them. 5-Aegon V had a daughter called Rhaelle who married with some unknown Baratheon, alos Eggs had three sons: Duncan the Small, Jaehaerys II and a third that remain unknown. Probably there's some more but I've been wondering about this; why has GRMM has let this character without name and history?, why is there an uncle of Aerys II that nobody knows nothing about it and nobody remember about him or talk about him?. Is there a brand of the family that we still have to find, maybe somewhere in Essos? Thoughts? 2. Viserys I indeed had two sons by his first wife, who both died before 105. Viserys I also had three sons and a daughter with his second wife, Alicent Hightower. The names of three out of four of these children are known right now: Aegon II, Aemond, and Helaena (Aegon II's wife later in life). The name of this third son of Alicent will probably also be revealed in The Princess and the Queen, where Helaena's name has been revealed as well. In that story, the name of Rhaenyra's second husband, Daemon Targaryen, is also revealed. He was her uncle, so he was probably a brother to Viserys I. Just thought I mention him for the sake of getting everything complete, 3. With Daemon Blackfyre II still alive, Bittersteel could not crown Haegon or any later son of Daemon I. After Bittersteels death, it's possible that the family landed in some more difficult times, financially. We just don't know. 5. Rhaelle married Lord Baratheon, and became the mother of Lord Steffon Baratheon, the father of Robert, Stannis and Renly. So we don't know the mans name, but we do know exactly who her grandchildren and greatgrandchildren are. Also, the World book supposedly contains a complete family tree, filling in the blanks. But it is true that there were a lot of minor brands before the Dance of the Dragons, and most of them died in the civil war. Brightflame had a son according to Aemon in GoT but that was presumably off in Essos somewhere Aerion indeed had a son, who was an infant when he died. Since the boy had been considered very (very very) briefly when the Council was deciding on who to make a King after Maekar's death, we can assume the child was legimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 i think it's for possibilities and mystery, that way you can wonder about them. In the same vein as GRRM will not (?) make a complete asoiaf map/globe. but do you guys think its to late now to introduce another "secret" or overlooked targaryen? I think so, he's already said he has too many characters and intends to start thinning the herd. I'm sure we'll meet at least a few more people(Howland for instance) but probably not any big shockers. Hopefully no more Targaryens other than the obvious but we already know him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Aerion indeed had a son, who was an infant when he died. Since the boy had been considered very (very very) briefly when the Council was deciding on who to make a King after Maekar's death, we can assume the child was legimate. I venture my guess that he was the ancestor of Varys and Serra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I venture my guess that he was the ancestor of Varys and Serra. But see, there's the problem. The only thing we have that could possibly be a connection between Varys and Serra, is (1) they were both at one point in their lives in Lys, Varys being born there, Serra working in a pillowhouse there, and (2) they both knew Illyrio at some point in their lives, though Varys got to know his a whole lot sooner. If Aerion had an infant son, and the boy was legimate, why would Egg not take care of the boy? Egg's a gentel person, and I don't see him killing children anytime soon, nor can I imagine him exiling a small child, who has done nothing wrong, his own blood, simply because Aerion was a terrible person? So this boy would have been taken care off, and rather well, most likely. When you say infant, I'm thinking about a child of about 1 year old. Since Aerion died in 232 AL, I'm guessing the child was born in 231 or 232 AL. That would have made him 20 in 250 AL. Since he wouldn't be a priority when marriage comes into play, he probably wasn't married young (and with young, I mean 13 or 14 years old, which seems to happen a lot in the Targaryen family). Varys was in KL already a couple of years before the Tourney of Harrenhal, and he was a man grown. Harrenhal happened in 281, so if we give Varys a coupld of years at court to establish himself, he arrived around 277 AL. If Varys was about 20 years old here, he was born around 257 AL, about 25 years after Aerions child. So Aerions child would have been his father. (please note that most of these numbers and dates are all a bit speculative) How can the son of a prince, and yes, Aerions son would have been a true prince, since he was legimate, be born a slave in Lys? Add to that that when you're born a slave, you are sold at a very early age. You probably won't remember anyone of your family. How would Varys have possibly remembered, or come into contact with Serra? If you have any idea's on this, I would love to hear them though. But I can't really believe Aerion's son is related to Varys, nor that Varys and Serra are related (though this story is written by GRRM, and thus, everything can happen :) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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