where is the gold of Winterfell?

[Irresistable]

House Stark is thousands of years old.

I'd be very suspicious if they DON'T have a ton of gold reserves hidden away somewhere or with the Iron Bank.

[Fightbringer]

White Harbour would generate a lot of silver because of the fact that it is the main, perhaps the only, trading port in the north that is on the eastern side of it (much easier to import good from the Vale, the Crownlands, and Stormlands, and most importantly the free cities) the silver probably comes from that. There may be a small amount of silver somewhere in the north, but probably less so than in other kingdoms (hence why Asha points out there isnt very much in the way of riches in the north, unless the real weallth lies in the sizeable ares they didnt conquer, remember it was only really the western coast they held. Its not like GRRM gives us a huge in depth analysis of each kingdoms economy, so there could well be a bit of silver knocking about, but the north is mainly based on things like wool, furs, and agricultural produce, is the basic idea that we are given. Wealth is probably generated mainly from selling this elsewhere, hence why White Harbour has a large amount of silver.

[Iona]

We also have to consider that Ned seemed to take his responsibilites as a liege lord and Warden of the North quite seriously. Instead of gathering a vast amount of gold and silver, he could have very well used some of the incomes WF got improving the infrastructure and providing aid for the smallfolk in other ways.

[Beathag]

I agree the Starks have money hidden somewhere. The crypts seem most likely. There is a reason it is so forbidding.

While Catelyn does fret about the cost, Ned doesn't seem concerned.

Clothes suitable for the girls to manage in KL are rustled up. Ned seems appropriately dressed.

Also Ned seems to have the best of people at Winterfell. His retainers do there jobs well -- Robb does well for a boy king until the girl was thrust under his nosie, so to speak.

I agree they lived a more simple life and more frugally, but some of that was forced on them by location.

Alas, I have no idea where the money came from, but as pointed out, they are an ancient house. A long time to build a fortune

[Lost Melnibonean]

Dudes, GRRM had Sandor Clegane wandering about the Riverlands on a war horse and 30k gold dragons. Ask yourself, "Self, how much does a gold voin weigh and whst would I need to carry 30k of them?"

[Team_Rob]

The northern house yield taxes to Winterfell. This has been going on for thousands of years until the conquest, so the Starks must have a sizeable fortune. Ramsey had to have taken most of it along with all the women to the Dreadfort.

[The Fallen]

` I wouldn't say the Starks are frugal. They come from a culture that's doesn't believe in being ostentatious.

All the kids dressed nice, including Theon. And when Catelyn went to King's Landing she had money with her and even tipped the.crew.

As far as the money's location, that is a good question. Could GRRM have simply overlooked it? Or will it reappear in the next books?

[Mad Monkey]

This is when Ned would make a tearful confession to his family about his lifelong cocaine addiction and how basically all of Winterfell's gold went up his nose. Then he'll have to take the job as Hand of the King in order to keep the family afloat after he squandered all of their wealth.

[Djinn]

It's all tied up in a large shipment of ice coming from Lorath. Winter will come, damn it!

[intheswamp]

GRRM is bad when it comes to Planetos' economics.

[Free Northman]

The Starks most certainly must have hundreds of thousands, perhaps even millions, in gold.

I think Martin overlooked this. There is no way that the winner of the Hand's Tourney is suddenly even remotely as wealthy as a Lord Paramount of one of the Seven Kingdom's.

[joe42m1]

There is no gold; bronze and iron are the metals of winter. :cool4:

[Minstral]

Perhaps there is room for unfounded conjecture. Perhaps the Starks hold an account with the Iron Bank and have money stored there. Or perhaps the likes of Manderly or another vassal holds onto it for the time being. Or perhaps there isn't any.

[Pod The Impaler]

The North has some gold, to be sure. You cannot build up a command of a whole region and have nothing in your treasury. The gold-hoarding policies of the major lords are not much discussed. I imagine the Bolton's carried off whatever was left in Winterfell's treasury, if the Ironborn did not remove some of it first.

However, I doubt the North is filthy rich; other places like the Reach or Riverlands are likely wealthier (at least before the war). The Westerlands famously have actual gold mines, so theirs is bonus wealth - not by trade or taxation but because it is just there in the ground.

Truthfully, I wonder why the North seems to have no gold mines (or silver or or gems), since they have the most territory. I guess maybe they have their wealth still in the ground somewhere, but with a scarce population, maybe nobody has discovered it.

[Free Northman]

The North has some gold, to be sure. You cannot build up a command of a whole region and have nothing in your treasury. The gold-hoarding policies of the major lords are not much discussed. I imagine the Bolton's carried off whatever was left in Winterfell's treasury, if the Ironborn did not remove some of it first.

However, I doubt the North is filthy rich; other places like the Reach or Riverlands are likely wealthier (at least before the war). The Westerlands famously have actual gold mines, so theirs is bonus wealth - not by trade or taxation but because it is just there in the ground.

Truthfully, I wonder why the North seems to have no gold mines (or silver or or gems), since they have the most territory. I guess maybe they have their wealth still in the ground somewhere, but with a scarce population, maybe nobody has discovered it.

Being a prudent ruler is exactly why Eddard would have substantial gold reserves. He is not the type that will run deficits, but rather a ruler that would build substantial reserves for a rainy (or snowy) day. Especially after a 10 year summer.

Since the old Mint of the Kingdom of the North was located in White Harbor, I suspect the Starks might have stored their excess gold there as well.

I also like the idea of accounts with the Iron Bank.

[Asha Greyjoy:Feminist Icon]

We also have to consider that Ned seemed to take his responsibilites as a liege lord and Warden of the North quite seriously. Instead of gathering a vast amount of gold and silver, he could have very well used some of the incomes WF got improving the infrastructure and providing aid for the smallfolk in other ways.

We now know what The North Remembers...strong Keynesian economic policies.

This ties in well to my fervent belief that the next pillar of feudalism to fall prey to GRRM's critical eye will be gross financial inequality - and subsequent class warfare. Literally.

The Winds of Winter: Occupy Westeros. I am fucking psyched.

[Petyr Patter]

Winterfell should have had a treasury, or rather a vault, which kept their cash on hand. Mostly, this money came from taxes which in turn came from the sale of agricultural produce. It is not clear just how great this treasury is, but the Starks were probably wealthier than 99.99% of Westeros. Still, they recently fought in two wars to say nothing of the not that distant Blackfyre rebellions and concurrent Iron Islands attack.

If anyone is curious about medievel economics from a peasant perspective, I recommend this book: http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Life-Penifader-Brigstock-1295-1344/dp/0072903317/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1383730211&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=medieval+peastant+life . While it was mostly growing and eating your own crops, most also did engage in some activities that specifically made money so they could pay their lords' tithes. For example, selling cow milk.

[Ahura Mazda]

Well.. though I much more concerned in respect to the questions: "Where is Winterfell smallfolk town?" "Where were these people when ramsay arrived?" "How small must it be to never be mentioned?" "Why did they build a castle in the middle of nowhere, if no town?" "Why nobody thought of establishing under the safety of those walls? Surely not all people are farmers.."

I believe that GRRM didn't think too much about the treasure. Certainly Ramsay looked for it, but I doubt he found anything. Winterfell has a very developed underground system to be used during Winter, therefore many hidden places into which placing some gold and silver reserve.

The economy in the north is mostly rural and "poorer" than the south in terms of liquidity, this means that prices are higher but economy is mostly based on goods exchange without money. Wealth can be spread and high enough even without the need of money, though in our current society we have forgotten that. In the north wealth is measured in number of sheeps and cows, in the extension of fertile lands you posess, in the availability of a repair for the winter.. all things nobody who survives winter misses. And when you have all of that, what do you need more? Money is not essential when you can barter your own wealth.

[House Lemongrab]

White harbor receives much wealth from trade, and as far as I am concerned, that wealth is the Stark's, not the Manderly's. The Manderly's run White Harbor as it is today, however, the wealth accumulated in White Harbor should be largely considered Stark money. So Wyman may simply have been asking permission to access the money to create the ships.

My theory anyways.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Dudes, GRRM had Sandor Clegane wandering about the Riverlands on a war horse and 30k gold dragons. Ask yourself, "Self, how much does a gold voin weigh and whst would I need to carry 30k of them?"

I did ask myself this after our exchange in another thread. If a gold dragon weighs approximately the same as an American gold eagle, 30K of them would weigh over 500 kg, which is roughly the equivalent mass of 7 adult males (maybe 6 is they're Clegane size) That's a hell of an amount of pocket change. Or a rather long baggage train for a fugitive.

All of which leads me to agree with the poster who said GRRM kind of sucks on economics.