The Sleeper Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 The Riverlords bending the knee without Robb's consent would be treason against him, and only create further conflict in the Riverlands. Robb had no reason to believe he would be able to come back stronger at that point. The Lannisters and Tyrells, the richest families with the most troops, had aligned against him. The Vale wasn't coming to help. He had lost the Karstarks and Freys. The Ironborn held the North, Winterfell was taken and his brothers dead. Cat wanted peace from the very beginning. She gives him the best advice she can on how to conduct the war, but her heart isn't in it. In AGOT she advises Robb to go home after he captures Jaime. In ASOS she tells him that Tywin will accept his fealty if he gives up hostages. Roose agrees when talking with Jaime, who he has no reason to lie to about that. "With peace there are pardons," he says, and the example of Balon Greyjoy show this to be true. As does the example of Renly and Stannis's bannermen who were pardoned after Blackwater. Kneel so you can rise another day, blade in hand. I really don't understand the large contingent of people on this board who insist Robb did nothing wrong, despite everything that happened. Robb holding the North from is stronger than Robb not holding the North is a stronger position. He had a good plan for it, at least on paper. The riverlords were lost wither way, they could not hold on their own. There is nothing that suggests that Robb would have held capitulating against them. Cat called for peace in Riverrun after the Whispering Wood. It was a good time for it as they had the upper hand then. She tried to force a peace when she released Jaime. When she was talking to Robb she didn't formulate a particular plan she made him aware that it was an option. But she did have confidence in him winning his battles. Roose, as stated before, had already turned and is no master strategist. He fought one bettle in earnest and in that he was ineffectual. In this very page, I have posted something I believe to be Robb's mistake. Robb had to take his decisions in a chaotic situation with often limited information in hand and a heavy burden on his shoulders. Everybody, everywhere at anytime that makes a decision takes a gamble, Most of Robb's decisions were thoughtful, intelligent and exibited forthsight. You claim casually that other people were smarter than Robb. Robb's handling of the war clearly demonstrate that he was easily above the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dance Layder Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 The Others have the best strategy 1: only be able to be killed by one thing in the entire world2: kill everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Roose, as stated before, had already turned and is no master strategist. He fought one bettle in earnest and in that he was ineffectual. Once again, winning battles is far from everything. Robb learned that to his sorrow, but apparently many readers didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Once again, winning battles is far from everything. Robb learned that to his sorrow, but apparently many readers didn't What's that supposed to mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Lannister Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Best Commanders All time(Westeros Only)1. Tristifer Mudd2. Daeron I Targaryen 3. Stannis Baratheon4. Robb Stark5. Robert Baratheon6. Blackfish Tully7. Brynden Rivers8. Tyrion Lannister9. Aegon II10. Euron Greyjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckthorn Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Once again, winning battles is far from everything. Robb learned that to his sorrow, but apparently many readers didn'tTrue, winning never makes you a good commander, it is your ability to organize your troops and prevent major casualties. Look at George Washington's defeat in New York, he retreated in orderly fashion and lost very few men to the Hessian forces. Roose did the same at the Green Fork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Daenerys Stormborn Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Best Commanders All time(Westeros Only) 1. Tristifer Mudd 2. Daeron I Targaryen 3. Stannis Baratheon 4. Robb Stark 5. Robert Baratheon 6. Blackfish Tully 7. Brynden Rivers 8. Tyrion Lannister 9. Aegon II 10. Euron Greyjoy Who is Tristifer Mudd and what is Stannis doing as third best general of all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckthorn Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Who is Tristifer Mudd and what is Stannis doing as third best general of all time? Tristifier Mudd was a legendary king of "Rivers and Hills" who resisted the Andals and defeated them in 99 battles but was eventually defeated and killed in his 100th battle when 7 Andal kings joined to defeat him. Being of First Men culture he had runes on his warhammer and was king from The Trident to The Neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Lannister Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Who is Tristifer Mudd and what is Stannis doing as third best general of all time? Actually that list does not reflect the ranking. However, I still believe that Stannis is an excellent commander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfyre demon Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 True, winning never makes you a good commander, it is your ability to organize your troops and prevent major casualties. Look at George Washington's defeat in New York, he retreated in orderly fashion and lost very few men to the Hessian forces. Roose did the same at the Green Fork. With this wonderful quote I'd like to present one of my favorites: Mance Rayder He is one of the few people in Westeros who could unite and somewhat organize the Wildlings. Which is a unique feat considering the notoriously individualistic ways of the wildlings. He gathered most of them way up north in the lands beyond the wall. Then he marched on the wall with his 'army' suffering wight-attacks every night, but still keeping his 'army' together, another unique feat considering that such attacks would cripple the morale of nearly every army in Westeros, and lead to it's subsequent dispersion. He lost the assault on the wall, but tactically speaking there's not much else he could've done. He didn't rely on a simple head-on attack like some people here claim. He ordered raiders to climb the wall, and create a diversion in the gift, prompting the NW to weaken their garisson leaving castle black vulnerable to a two-pronged attack. His loss to Stannis can be accredited to his capture. Stannis charged with armored knights, he countered by attacking them with ill-equipped Wildlings, leading to his capture and subsequently to the routing of the wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naik2902 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Stannis - the Priest banger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I still don't buy that Robb's performance in a 2 year war that was mostly reactionary makes him one of the greatest commanders of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Context matters. That Balon would want to make a move during a large war between multiple parties isn't exactly rocket surgery. That's what Robb believed anyway, hence his gamble that of course the Ironborn would sail against the West Are you one of those that believe Robb basically made no mistakes other than marrying Jeyne? "rocket surgery"? Do you mean rocket science? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Daenerys Stormborn Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I still don't buy that Robb's performance in a 2 year war that was mostly reactionary makes him one of the greatest commanders of all time. I don't know about all time, but who do you think performed better in the war of the five kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I don't know about all time, but who do you think performed better in the war of the five kings?Strategically? Balon Greyjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Strategically? Balon Greyjoy. Not sure if serious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkan12 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Strategically? Balon Greyjoy. Good joke. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Strategically? Balon Greyjoy. Asha disagrees with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Asha disagrees with you. And that add's to the collective rais of eyebrows how? She is just as bad, if not worse. She both supported her dad, and knew that it is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sleeper Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 And that add's to the collective rais of eyebrows how? She is just as bad, if not worse. She both supported her dad, and knew that it is pointless. It doesn't help his case that the person most supportive of him, thought he was a moron. Perhaps, she hoped she could get him to amend his strategy after he'd had his taste of blood and cooled off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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