Jon Snow's Fate - Ghost / Ice Cell

[Payme]

Well like I said in the post, there are alternative explanations, but it just seems like a real stretch to me. If Jon has been paralysed from the neck down, or any other similar scenario, this is a huge major event. Grrm almost always foreshadows such things, and I would ask - where is the textual support? I certainly can't find any trace, and the scenario I've described happens to fit in with visions, HoTU, dreams and legends, and other things I've presented.

Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware of all of the visions, dreams etc.. that point the other way, and believe they point at the highest possibility for Jon's "outcome". I just think there's a small chance GRRM pulls a twist here with Jon's "death", and the possibility of him being paralyzed jumped out at me the first time I reread that scene. Lines up nicely for a paralyzation in my opinion.

But yah, unlikely that's where GRRM goes with it (or has already gone).

[yolkboy]

Concerning his status as a reborn leader, and whether his men will follow him because of the negative connotations of reanimation at the Wall, I guess it comes down to the nature of the resurrection. I can think of several scenarios where Mel could pull it off, but I think that's a discussion best left for later in the thread.

Yes and if he's not 'reborn' with blue eyes, it would work in his favour. Plus people might figure out he's inside Ghost because the wolf is usually mute, and Jon can make a noise inside him...

The forest was vast and cold, and they were so small, so lost. His brothers were out there somewhere, and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a long lonely mournful sound. As it died away, he pricked up his ears, listening for an answer, but the only sound was the sigh of blowing snow.

So in this sense, Jon might be accepted and not viewed with the same disdain reserved for wights.

[Black November]

Aren't you the author of the Melisandre/Bloodraven theory? I realy like that one.

[yolkboy]

Aren't you the author of the Melisandre/Bloodraven theory? I realy like that one.

Yes I am, and really these two pieces are related, as I will be exploring more about Azor Ahai and prophesies with further additions to this thread. Thx!

[Ivan Tsarevich]

Aren't you the author of the Melisandre/Bloodraven theory? I realy like that one.

Yes I am, and really these two pieces are related, as I will be exploring more about Azor Ahai and prophesies with further additions to this thread. Thx!

Where can I find this?

[yolkboy]

Where can I find this?

here

[Black November]

Yes I am, and really these two pieces are related, as I will be exploring more about Azor Ahai and prophesies with further additions to this thread. Thx!

I did not yet read your new theory as my head bang's a bit and im sure I couldn't follow it right now.

[Ivan Tsarevich]

here

Thank you. :read:

[Lord Grumkin]

(Bows) Very nice and logical:) Just go lightly on the text colors:) Be sure to include/reference existing theories, this can become kind of comprehensive summary.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

Amazing thread yolkboy.

I like the ice influences that are strong in Jon's arc.

I think Jon in the ice cell is going to be similar to Dany's funeral pyre and he will be reborn in some way and it continues the parallel arcs of these two characters, representing ice and fire respectively.

Well done!

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Personally I like the colours. They provide a helpful visual aid for textual connections and add a good bit of cheer. :cheers:

[yolkboy]

Amazing thread yolkboy.

I like the ice influences that are strong in Jon's arc.

I think Jon in the ice cell is going to be similar to Dany's funeral pyre and he will be reborn in some way and it continues the parallel arcs of these two characters, representing ice and fire respectively.

Well done!

Thanks Alysanne, and i would guess, if we are looking at a resurrection sequence, Grrm would no doubt draw many parallels with Dany's pyre. It would be true to Grrm's style of writing, he does like things to fit together nicely.

Personally I like the colours. They provide a helpful visual aid for textual connections and add a good bit of cheer. :cheers:

Yes it's difficult to find the balance but it's certainly better for me to highlight similarities between two passages by using colour schemes.

[Lyse Stark]

I really like this theory. And I thought of one symbol that describe Jon Snow: the yin-yang. The yin part is ice and the yang the fire. Both are coexisting forever, and if there is too much of one element, the balance is thrown off.

The YIN

Ice

Cold

Night

Feminine

Winter

the YANG

Fire

Heat

Day

Masculine

Summer

Now do you get it? I thought that his resurrection will NEED both sides! The fire and ice parts will need to come together. If one part is missing, Jon won't be there, just a Unjon. So in my opinion, it will be Bran and Bloodraven who do the work, while Melisandre brings his body to the grove of nine weirwoods for the rituals.

[J. Stargaryen]

Nice post.

I don't have much to add at the moment except for the "chink" in the wall of ice part. A "chink" is often associated with letting in light, which makes me think of Lightbringer and day/the dawn, etc. Could be something there.

[yolkboy]

So in my opinion, it will be Bran and Bloodraven who do the work, while Melisandre brings his body to the grove of nine weirwoods for the rituals.

Yes, ice and fire definitely brings to mind ying/yang, and the eternal struggle for balance. It's no surprise that Jon Snow-Targaryen seems to be at the centre of the storm, his is the song of ice and fire & all that.

And the scenario you're describing is pretty much what I had in mind. I'll post more on that here soon, the piece was so large I needed to chop it up.

[BitsOfBrains]

Another important thing we know about the ice cells is the fact that corpses in them don't turn into wights.

Jon tosses a couple corpses in there for research purposes, but they never turn.

[yolkboy]

Another important thing we know about the ice cells is the fact that corpses in them don't turn into wights.

Jon tosses a couple corpses in there for research purposes, but they never turn.

This is a good point. The two corpses must have a purpose, otherwise why are they there? They might prove something on the right side of the Wall can't be wighted. Jaffers was already a wight when he was taken south of the Wall before his attack at Castle Black. So Jon in an ice cell should be free from the threat of becoming a white. His body would remain an empty vessel.

[Rooseman]

I absolutely love your posts, yolkboy. You have a very good eye for spotting all these connections in the text.

Threads like these are the reason I visit this board. :)

[TomBadgerlock]

I recommend the series, if you ever find yourself bored enough. Hobb is not as cruel, frustrating or unpredictable writer as GRRM, but he knows how to tell more relaxed story.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I should point out that Robin Hobb is in fact a woman. I too recommend the series as one might be able to tell by my use of the character's pseudonym as my username.

I love yolkboy's post and find it very convincing. I look forward to the rest.

[The Dornishman's Widow]

That is really excellent work. It makes sense and you've digged up a lot of heavy foreshadowing for it. This contains some of the most valid predictions about the next book I've seen.

Yes and if he's not 'reborn' with blue eyes, it would work in his favour. Plus people might figure out he's inside Ghost because the wolf is usually mute, and Jon can make a noise inside him...

So in this sense, Jon might be accepted and not viewed with the same disdain reserved for wights.

By the way, the eye colour is probably not just a side effect of the rebirth as wightlike being but a consequence of being under the Others' thrall. Coldhands' eyes did not change to blue but to black. If people understand the importance of the eyes remaining clear (and abnormal eyes as sign of being possessed is a classical sign), they should be able to make the distinction between reborn Jon and the wights relatively easily (still probably not without hiccups though).