"The Dragon Has Three Heads, There Must Be One More" Who and What are the "3 heads?"

[Rill Redthorn]

^{@rillredthorn Exactly, you just cannot fully trust the guy. I know what you mean though. He has built Jon up so much, I really don't think he would just kill him like he did with Rob, and so on. Still pissed at Jon for not keeping Ghost at his side though. Those starks really need to keep those direwolves at hand!}

^{Woops, I wasn't clear on that point. I was referring to Jon being a little estranged to his powers. He still very much cares for his family. I would love for him to realize who's still alive, and who isn't in one way or another.}

Oh, yeah, Jon hardly seems to pay much attention to his power potential as a warg at all. I kind of put that down to him just being Too Damned BUSY (!!) since the story began to mess around with it, plus he never had a mentor in the Gift the way Bran did and the way one of the other Changers did (I think it was Sixskins?). Bran was first in a coma and then stuck in bed for months due to his injury and had plenty of time to stretch his mental powers, plus help from the Three Eyed Crow, plus a ton of motivation in the form of looking for something to have to take the place of his lost ability to walk and his lost dreams of knighthood. I mean, if Jaime hadn't chucked Bran off that tower, I'm not clear Bran would have ever developed any of his powers either, necessarily.

Heck, Bloodraven said he'd been waiting for Bran for a very long time, but that might just mean he was waiting for someone with the Gift *and* the eagerness/motivation to use it to come along, not necessarily that he was waiting specifically for this one kid, Brandon Stark. If Jon had gotten...oh, I don't know, kicked by a horse when he was ten and crippled...for all we know Bloodraven would have introduced himself to Jon instead when the time was right. Or Arya, or Sansa, or Rickon, or even Robb.

For that matter, here's an interesting parallel: Bloodraven is, himself, kind of a Song of Ice and Fire, because he's the result of a union between a royal Targ (Aegon IV) and the Blood of the First Men (Melissa Blackwood, a Northern line as old as the Starks.) Maybe he was actually hoping that Jon would be his apprentice, with his parallel background (yes, I'm firmly in the L+R=J camp, don't even start with me on that) and his link with the color white (Snow, Ghost, albinos, weirwoods...white white white white.) Maybe Bran was something of a surprise due to his unexpected injury presenting an opportunity for Bloodraven, but his first choice would have been Jon. After all, Jon and Bloodraven are actually related, although a vanishingly small amount by this point -- looking at the Targ family tree, if my geneology skills are working, Jon and Bloodraven are first cousins six times removed.

So now I've convinced myself that Bloodraven intended to apprentice Jon but decided that Bran would work out better due to his injury. That's my new idea and I'm sticking to it!

[Good Guy Garlan]

If they have no role in the Long Night 2.0, then why are they mentioned in the prophecy in the first place?

They do have a role in the LN, though. They mark whoever is AA

[Rill Redthorn]

Oh, pardon the interruption, I'm not chiming in with a guess one way or the other (other than to say I do think there will be three dragonriders), but this leads me to a question about the three headed dragon of House Targaryen. When, exactly, was that sigil taken, anyone know? We know they came from Valyria, camped out on Dragonstone, but I didn't think Valyrians were known for sigils. So, I just realized, LOL, I'm curious.......when did the family adopt that as their official sigil? Thanks to anyone who can answer it.

Aegon I created it after he conquered Westeros (sans Dorne.) It represents him, Rhaenys, and Visenya, because the Targs actually had more than three dragons during most of their reign. Balerion, Vhagar, and Meraxes were the biggest ones but not the only ones, so the three-headed dragon isn't the animals, it's the people. This is stated explicitly somewhere but I don't know the exact reference. House Targ wouldn't have needed any kind of heraldic symbol until Aegon decided to get ...involved...in Westerosi politics; for a long time the Targs were just "those blonde weirdos with the dragons hanging out on that volcanic island after their homeland blew up," and not involved in the Westerosi heraldic system at all, so they wouldn't need a symbol any more than Illyrio Mopatis would. ("A Fat Man D'Or, Rampant, With Cheese")

After declaring himself king, Aegon came up with the dragon symbol. Whether or not he was inspired by a prophecy of a "three headed dragon" as well as the fact that he and his two sisters were the heads of their family is unknown.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

Aegon I created it after he conquered Westeros (sans Dorne.) It represents him, Rhaenys, and Visenya, because the Targs actually had more than three dragons during most of their reign. Balerion, Vhagar, and Meraxes were the biggest ones but not the only ones, so the three-headed dragon isn't the animals, it's the people. This is stated explicitly somewhere but I don't know the exact reference. House Targ wouldn't have needed any kind of heraldic symbol until Aegon decided to get ...involved...in Westerosi politics; for a long time the Targs were just "those blonde weirdos with the dragons hanging out on that volcanic island after their homeland blew up," and not involved in the Westerosi heraldic system at all, so they wouldn't need a symbol any more than Illyrio Mopatis would. ("A Fat Man D'Or, Rampant, With Cheese")

After declaring himself king, Aegon came up with the dragon symbol. Whether or not he was inspired by a prophecy of a "three headed dragon" as well as the fact that he and his two sisters were the heads of their family is unknown.

Thanks. :cheers:

[A Bastard Snow]

I don't think the dragons will play any role at all in the battle against the others.The others lost to someone without dragons already and having giant magical dragons just solve all the problems is not good story telling.My bet is they will all die before the others show up and people will have to deal with the others.Also you cant warg a dragon if you could you think Torren would have bent the knee?No he would have been like nice dragons bro I think ill have you know the wargs that live in the north seeing as 1/1000 are born one just jack your dragons and GG it.Bran will not Warg a dragon there is no history anywhere of anyone warging a dragon.

[Lost Melnibonean]

"Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black," Patchface sang somewhere. "I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

Dany's riding the black dragon. Because she's riding the black dragon and because of the color identification TP&TQ Aegon seems to be associated with green. And of course Jon is the blue rose in a chink of ice.

Three heads, Aegon, Jon & Dany, green, blue & black.

I believe Rhaegar's vision has nothing to do with riding dragons. And I think the three aspects of one character is a little too overanalyzed.

Aemon tells us later that Rhaegar came to believe his son would be TPTWP. Like so many prophesy interpretations we've seen he got this one slightly wrong. His son is TPTWP but it's Jon Snow not Rhaegar's first born son.

Rhaegar was with Aegon and looking at Dany when he said there must be one more. Since I believe Aegon Targaryen VI was killed and that Jon is the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, I believe Jon is the first head. I believe that Dany is the second head since Rhaegar was looking at her right at that moment. That he told us there was one more was a clue that another character would be revealed or introduced. The most dramatic introduction of a character since the HotU was Aegon at the Bridge of Dream. Aegon is the third head.

I used to think that AAR, TPTWP & the Last Hero referred to three different characters corresponding to Rhaegar's three-headed dragon. But AAR & TPTWP seem to refer to the same character and I believe that the specific partial retelling of the Last Hero tale by Old Nan is a foreshadowing of the deaths of the persons who came into direct contact with Bran on his journey from Winterfell to the cave of the CotF.

[Fire Eater]

They do have a role in the LN, though. They mark whoever is AA

There is nothing pointing to one head of the dragon surviving with the other two dying.

[Lyse Stark]

There is nothing pointing to one head of the dragon surviving with the other two dying.

And we already know that Rhaenys and Aegon VI is dead, so now Jon has three aspects in himself.

Jon the Night's Watchsman, Jon the Wildling, Jon the King

Crow, Wolf, Dragon

Direwolf, Man, Dragon

Smith, Father, Warrior

[Good Guy Garlan]

There is nothing pointing to one head of the dragon surviving with the other two dying.

There is practically nothing pointing in one way or another to the 3 heads of the dragon, only Rhaegar's and Aemon's extremely vague mentions (I'm not even counting Jorah's half-assed interpretation because he just wanted to get in Dany's pants). We still don't know if they're supposed to be siblings, Targaryens, riders, etc. That's why they're called theories

[The Kinkslayer]

The song of ice and fire seems kind of important, but we don't know what's in it, only that Rhaegar and Aemon knew it.

The part about the PTWP being a Targ comes from the Ghost of highsomething, most likely a children of the forest, but not precisely a greenseer (more similar to Jojen than to Bloodraven).

And the part about the dragon having 3 heads is entirely Targaryen delutions

[lightbringer2525]

Oh, yeah, Jon hardly seems to pay much attention to his power potential as a warg at all. I kind of put that down to him just being Too Damned BUSY (!!) since the story began to mess around with it, plus he never had a mentor in the Gift the way Bran did and the way one of the other Changers did (I think it was Sixskins?). Bran was first in a coma and then stuck in bed for months due to his injury and had plenty of time to stretch his mental powers, plus help from the Three Eyed Crow, plus a ton of motivation in the form of looking for something to have to take the place of his lost ability to walk and his lost dreams of knighthood. I mean, if Jaime hadn't chucked Bran off that tower, I'm not clear Bran would have ever developed any of his powers either, necessarily.

Heck, Bloodraven said he'd been waiting for Bran for a very long time, but that might just mean he was waiting for someone with the Gift *and* the eagerness/motivation to use it to come along, not necessarily that he was waiting specifically for this one kid, Brandon Stark. If Jon had gotten...oh, I don't know, kicked by a horse when he was ten and crippled...for all we know Bloodraven would have introduced himself to Jon instead when the time was right. Or Arya, or Sansa, or Rickon, or even Robb.

For that matter, here's an interesting parallel: Bloodraven is, himself, kind of a Song of Ice and Fire, because he's the result of a union between a royal Targ (Aegon IV) and the Blood of the First Men (Melissa Blackwood, a Northern line as old as the Starks.) Maybe he was actually hoping that Jon would be his apprentice, with his parallel background (yes, I'm firmly in the L+R=J camp, don't even start with me on that) and his link with the color white (Snow, Ghost, albinos, weirwoods...white white white white.) Maybe Bran was something of a surprise due to his unexpected injury presenting an opportunity for Bloodraven, but his first choice would have been Jon. After all, Jon and Bloodraven are actually related, although a vanishingly small amount by this point -- looking at the Targ family tree, if my geneology skills are working, Jon and Bloodraven are first cousins six times removed.

So now I've convinced myself that Bloodraven intended to apprentice Jon but decided that Bran would work out better due to his injury. That's my new idea and I'm sticking to it!

That is a really interesting theory. I really need to remember all the lineages. Never really considered that he was the ice and fire. It totally makes sense though. Pretty much Arya, and Jon both don't fully understand their powers. Jon especially doesn't, but he is definitely a busy guy, being Lord Commander and all. Bloodraven could very well have chosen Jon first, but decided to go with Bran instead because of his circumstances. It definitely seems that way, which is why Bran falling from the window was such a big deal. It not only took away his legs, but also opened the door to him being able to really explore, and uncover the truth behind his abilities. There are probably a ton of wargs who don't do anything about it because they simply just don't understand it, or don't want to understand it. That Bloodraven is an interesting creature indeed, and I feel like he saw an opportunity when Bran was in his deep sleep, so he took advantage of it. I think I might have to stick to this theory too!

[SusieSnow]

Bran will not Warg a dragon there is no history anywhere of anyone warging a dragon.

Actually... When Meera and Jojen realize that Bran warged into Hodor, they were really surprised. Jojen made a remark at some point (I'll need to look up which books) that Bran was unique in being able to: have green dreams (past & present) AND warg into animals AND warg into another human being AND view the world through a tree. ALSO, Bloodraven tells Bran that theres no way to speak to people through the Weirwood trees (that nobody can possibly hear him)... and guess what happens? Hello, Theon.

After reading ALL of the ASoIaF books 3 times, it seems like a lot of importance is placed on Bran needing to learn how to "fly". I can't possibly believe the importance would be limited to flying around as a Raven. Like seriously....

I think there's a GREAT possibility that Bran will be able to warg into a dragon down the road. Though the dragon may "fight" him initially, there's certainly no chance of him getting eaten or burnt... therefore, he wouldn't need a single drop of Targaryen/Velaryon/Blackfyre or bastard-seed blood.... only sheer mind power, which he's currently learning to master.

With that said... I think the "dragon has 3 heads" refers to Daenerys - the Dragon (FIRE) and her 3 dragons (Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal) are the 3 heads, and Jon is the Prince that was Promised (ICE). I don't think Jon will ride a dragon since he has Ghost. But I suspect Gendry Baratheon and Aegon (Griff) Blackfyre will ride Viserion & Rhaegal, with Daenerys on Drogon of course. Black, Red, Green, and everything in between will likely come together to defeat evil.

I'm not sure where Tyrion fits just yet, but I think he'll likely become the Queens or Kings "Hand".... trusty, witty, highly intelligent advisor of sorts. As well as hack some Others legs off with a Valerian axe. Maybe he, and other popular candidates, will ride other dragons, if they find the rest of the eggs floating around.... and Daenerys hatches them (mother of dragons, wink wink).

I propose Stannis as Azor Ahai and Melisandre as Nissa Nissa... his sword is cold until he stabs her with it, tempering it with her lifes blood (flame) and then his sword comes to life.

And finally, I think Daenerys will die giving birth to a son who will be "The Stallion that Mounts the World", thereafter reuniting her with Khal Drogo, and her son will grow up to unite all the kingdoms after a great supernatural war is fought against the Others.

Those are my opinions. Feel free to disagree. :)

[SusieSnow]

FYI - If you haven't already done so, I highly recommend reading the Dunk & Egg Novellas, since they shed a lot of light on how to interpret prophecy regarding dragons. Also, the latest novella, The Princess and the Queen sheds a lot of light on the sealords... dragons of the sea.

I'm not sure if it's okay to elaborate here on those Novellas, so I won't. I wouldn't wanna spoil anything for anyone.

I'm new here. Are the D&E and P&Q novellas considered part of the ASoIaF series, that can be discussed here?

[Rill Redthorn]

FYI - If you haven't already done so, I highly recommend reading the Dunk & Egg Novellas, since they shed a lot of light on how to interpret prophecy regarding dragons. Also, the latest novella, The Princess and the Queen sheds a lot of light on the sealords... dragons of the sea.

I'm not sure if it's okay to elaborate here on those Novellas, so I won't. I wouldn't wanna spoil anything for anyone.

I'm new here. Are the D&E and P&Q novellas considered part of the ASoIaF series, that can be discussed here?

Definitely. I referenced tP&tQ myself just above (Nettles bonding with Sheepstealer.) I think people who aren't done with all available relevant reading material and want to avoid spoilage are supposed to go over into the "Still Reading" areas to avoid spoilage.

[Rill Redthorn]

Gendry Baratheon and Aegon (Griff) Blackfyre will ride Viserion & Rhaegal, with Daenerys on Drogon of course. Black, Red, Green, and everything in between will likely come together to defeat evil.

I propose Stannis as Azor Ahai and Melisandre as Nissa Nissa... his sword is cold until he stabs her with it, tempering it with her lifes blood (flame) and then his sword comes to life.

Gendry? That's an interesting choice, given that we aren't sure where he is right now (he was last seen helping out that girl with all the kids at the Inn at the Crossroads, right? Was he confirmed to be hanging out with UnCat's group?) -- and he's got less Targ blood than his Uncle Stannis, so if that matters Stannis is actually a better bet, giving props to the poster on the last page who put this highly amusing image into my head.

Heck, if Gendry can do it, why not Edric Storm? He's at least in Essos right now so he's closer to the dragons :ohwell:

However, you get a point for suggesting that Stannis might stab Mel to death with Not-Lightbringer and thus make it real, because that's a great image. Except she's not in any way his true love, just his handy hate-f*ck-buddy he hopes will put him on the Iron Throne. I don't see any actual love at all between Stannis and Mel.

[Waylin Stark]

If it refers to 3 people who have the blood of the dragon, it's Jon, Dany and Aegon.

If it means 3 different aspects of a single person, or 3 different skins worn by a single person, I think it's Jon.

[Rill Redthorn]

That Bloodraven is an interesting creature indeed, and I feel like he saw an opportunity when Bran was in his deep sleep, so he took advantage of it. I think I might have to stick to this theory too!

Yeah, when I realized that Bloodraven represented a kind of proto-Ice-and-Fire character (Frost and Embers?) and that he seems to have some really unusual and potent magical abilities, I wondered if he was a foreshadowing of what kind of facinating genetic mix you can get when you cross Blood of the First Men with Blood of the Dragon. I'm a big fan of Bloodraven in any case, heh. I was thrilled when he popped up in the main narrative.

[Melisandros Megas]

Since I'm a supporter of the A+J=C+J hypothesis, I'd say Joff, Tommen and Myrcella.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Jon, Drogon and Ghost

It is three heads of the "dragon," singular, rather than dragons. Varamyr had five animals giving him the nickname, Sixskins, and Jon if he wargs a dragon would have three heads, IMO.

:agree:

As I have said before I believe that the 3headed dragon ≠ Dany's 3 dragons.

As I have said before; In many mythologies around the world one deity has 3 separate *faces*. One deity can be three other deities at the same time.

In ASOIAF we have heard about many Messianic prophesies. The way I see it that they are not different prophecies it's one character, one hero with different names and characteristics considering its cultural characteristics. I also believe that the *Messianic* person who will fulfill his/her purpose has to have balance. Only fire is an extremity just like only ice is the extremity, their song however is the balance.

So, I believe that Jon is the 3headed dragon; he is one man (dragon) with 3 heads (hypostasis)

Now, that said I believe that there will be 3, later 4, dragon riders in the end.

[Audrey Arryn]

Don't know who they are but Dany is definetly one of them cause the undying called her child of three and connected it to "the dragon has three heads" also Rhaegar was staring at her when he said there must be one more.