Men of the rivers

[Blackfish Tully]

Edmure did all correctly.

He hold Riverrun.

He just don't hide inside the castle, letting an enemy army passing by, scorching his land and killing his people, and attacking with superior numbers his nephew in enemy territory.

Edmure was great, very competent and effective in beating an experienced commander like Tywin, a enemy commander that was leading an army with superior numbers than the army of Edmure.

All the fault rests in Robb hands.

He should told to his uncle, a man that his the most important man in the new kingdom after the King, the plan him and the Blackfish had to lure Tywin into a trap.

So Edmure is under no obligation to see the bigger picture and understand what is happening in the rest of the world and realize that getting Tywin away from Kings Landing was the most important goal at that point in the war?

Tyrion understood what Tywin was doing by looking at a map , he did not need Tywin to send him his plans, why couldn't Edmure do the same thing. His pride got in his way and he needs to be held responsible for his mistake just like Robb is held responsible for his mistakes.

[Wmarshal]

So Edmure is under no obligation to see the bigger picture and understand what is happening in the rest of the world and realize that getting Tywin away from Kings Landing was the most important goal at that point in the war?

Tyrion understood what Tywin was doing by looking at a map , he did not need Tywin to send him his plans, why couldn't Edmure do the same thing. His pride got in his way and he needs to be held responsible for his mistake just like Robb is held responsible for his mistakes.

The bigger picture shows Tywin attacking Robb and killing him.

Because unlike Tywin, Robb's sitting in the West could more then one thing. Robb's 'plan' sound like he made up to get Edmure married o the Frey. His forces were scattered across the West destroying and butchering, not assembled to face Tywin. Rob could not leave once he entered for the West was guarded by castles, rivers and hills. His goat pass is at the entrance of the West, to get there Robb would have to go thru Tywin.

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

wald-- just kidding.

brynden tully is a bamf.

tytos blackwood also seems pretty cool.

[Blackfish Tully]

The bigger picture shows Tywin attacking Robb and killing him.

Because unlike Tywin, Robb's sitting in the West could more then one thing. Robb's 'plan' sound like he made up to get Edmure married o the Frey. His forces were scattered across the West destroying and butchering, not assembled to face Tywin. Rob could not leave once he entered for the West was guarded by castles, rivers and hills. His goat pass is at the entrance of the West, to get there Robb would have to go thru Tywin.

how do you know were Robb's forces were scattered ? we did not have a POV in the West so we have no idea how Robb's forces were set up. The West is a big place Tywin would not be able to chase Robb and also protect the exits , he did not have that many men to do both.

If Robb and the Blackfish did not have a plan for dealing with Tywin then why the hell were they still in the West ? Is Blackfish an idiot who would trap himself in enemy territory? I don't think so.

[Wmarshal]

how do you know were Robb's forces were scattered ? we did not have a POV in the West so we have no idea how Robb's forces were set up. The West is a big place Tywin would not be able to chase Robb and also protect the exits , he did not have that many men to do both.

If Robb and the Blackfish did not have a plan for dealing with Tywin then why the hell were they still in the West ? Is Blackfish an idiot who would trap himself in enemy territory? I don't think so.

Because we get a report of them being scattered. The exit are already protected. How is Robb going to go behind him to reach the exits?

You seem to forget while all this mess was going down Robb was injured then was fucking up the alliance by getting married to Jeyne.

[Blackfish Tully]

Because we get a report of them being scattered. The exit are already protected. How is Robb going to go behind him to reach the exits?

You seem to forget while all this mess was going down Robb was injured then was fucking up the alliance by getting married to Jeyne.

Not too long after Tywin took Kings Landing Robb rode into Riverrun and he showed no signs of his wounds so he would have been pretty well healed by the time Tywin crossed into the Westerlands. Robb and Blackfish had to know that every minute they stayed in the West there was a chance that Tywin would come after them, Tywin could not just let them tear the crap out of the West for too long or he would lose the support of his bannermen and also lose the resources of the West for the ongoing war so they would have always have had a plan for dealing with Tywin or they would be complete idiots.

[Wmarshal]

Not too long after Tywin took Kings Landing Robb rode into Riverrun and he showed no signs of his wounds so he would have been pretty well healed by the time Tywin crossed into the Westerlands. Robb and Blackfish had to know that every minute they stayed in the West there was a chance that Tywin would come after them, Tywin could not just let them tear the crap out of the West for too long or he would lose the support of his bannermen and also lose the resources of the West for the ongoing war so they would have always have had a plan for dealing with Tywin or they would be complete idiots.

He getting healed up at the Crag when Stannis lost. He got married to Jeyne soon after. Stannis lost did not happen before Robb was healed. The Freys were still with the Starks when it happened. Robb and Brynden had Edmure to watch Riverlands for his movement. Again, this whole " you f*ck up Edmure" was just pushing the man to marry the Freys, a house he would never consider on his own, but had to because of the " shame" he brought to himself.

[Isildur's Mane]

Don't you think we are getting a bit off topic here?

This is a who-is-your-favourite-riverland-character thread.

Mine would have to be the Blackfish; Tytos Blackwood; Mallister (all of them so far), Clement Piper - he seemed generally upset about his son Marq (who I also like) at the war council at Riverrun; Edmure; Bracken (just because I like the name); and Catelyn (she is in my top 10 fav characters).

Of the ones I... Wouldn't say I loved.... Lets just say they intrigue me are: Black Walder, Walder Rivers and Lame Lothar

[Twenty of House Goodmen]

Of the ones I... Wouldn't say I loved.... Lets just say they intrigue me are: Black Walder, Walder Rivers and Lame Lothar

I'll be honest, they intrigue me too. They are made out to be the most competent and dangerous of the Freys.

[Isildur's Mane]

I'll be honest, they intrigue me too. They are made out to be the most competent and dangerous of the Freys.

Yes, I agree. And I'm never quite sure of there potential. It sort of scares me.

And while it seems likely that there is a red wedding 2 in the go... I keep having this strange feeling that it won't go as planned and these 3 will somehow benefit from it.

But I have no proof of that, these are just feelings.

[Wmarshal]

Don't you think we are getting a bit off topic here?

This is a who-is-your-favourite-riverland-character thread.

Mine would have to be the Blackfish; Tytos Blackwood; Mallister (all of them so far), Clement Piper - he seemed generally upset about his son Marq (who I also like) at the war council at Riverrun; Edmure; Bracken (just because I like the name); and Catelyn (she is in my top 10 fav characters).

Of the ones I... Wouldn't say I loved.... Lets just say they intrigue me are: Black Walder, Walder Rivers and Lame Lothar

Sorry, as OP I should be the one saying that, a bullhead am I.

To be honest, I find the Freys to be the best part of the Riverlands in terms of story.

[Isildur's Mane]

Sorry, as OP I should be the one saying that, a bullhead am I.

To be honest, I find the Freys to be the best part of the Riverlands in terms of story.

Don't apologise, it's ok really :)

I was just a bit confused, lol, because when I went to apply I read the more recent posts and thought I had clicked on the wrong thread lol

[Nittanian]

Martyn Rivers' scout tells Catelyn in ACOK that "His Grace left Ser Edmure to hold Riverrun and guard his rear". If this is an accurate command, then Edmure acts correctly in preventing Tywin from entering the westerlands. Edmure has no knowledge of Robb's supposed trap and he is protecting Robb by preventing Tywin's march. If it is an inaccurate command and Robb wanted Edmure to remain inside Riverrun regardless of circumstances, then the miscommunication between Robb and Edmure has spread through the rivermen, including Frey scouts and Lords Blackwood and Bracken (who approve of Edmure's plan). Stefan Sasse has a nice essay about the topic, The Riverrun Decision.

I'm partial to loyal Tytos Blackwood, kind-hearted Edmure Tully, and enigmatic Brynden Rivers.

[Mad Monkey]

Don't you think we are getting a bit off topic here?

This is a who-is-your-favourite-riverland-character thread.

Mine would have to be the Blackfish; Tytos Blackwood; Mallister (all of them so far), Clement Piper - he seemed generally upset about his son Marq (who I also like) at the war council at Riverrun; Edmure; Bracken (just because I like the name); and Catelyn (she is in my top 10 fav characters).

Of the ones I... Wouldn't say I loved.... Lets just say they intrigue me are: Black Walder, Walder Rivers and Lame Lothar

I actually do find Lothar pretty interesting though. One thing I found impressive was how courteous and respectful he is, even when he's planning a murder. Most of the other Freys we meet are a bunch of sniggering chumps (like the three yokels who told Manderly that Robb Stark and his soldiers turned into wolves and had to be killed before they massacred everyone in the Twins).

[Pod The Rod]

Blackfish.

Edmure.

Jason Mallister.

Does Cat count as a Tully or a Stark?

[Ramsay Gimp]

I actually do find Lothar pretty interesting though. One thing I found impressive was how courteous and respectful he is, even when he's planning a murder. Most of the other Freys we meet are a bunch of sniggering chumps (like the three yokels who told Manderly that Robb Stark and his soldiers turned into wolves and had to be killed before they massacred everyone in the Twins).

Yea, he even pushes Hoster Tully's funeral boat down the river with some other bannermen and gives his condolences for what happened at Winterfell. All the while planning with Roose Bolton to kill everyone present.

Dangerous guy. He (cunning, diplomatic, and ruthless), Black Walder (a feared but effective warrior), and Stevron (courageous, good head on his shoulders) are all valuable assets for House Frey, but they're outnumbered by the dumb toadies and craven weasels

[Jasta11]

The Blackfish definitely. Badass? Check. Intelligent? check. Witty? Let's put it that way, who else gets the best out of a snarking match with Jaime Lannister?

I also like Edmure for being one of the only Lords to think of his folk. Also because I'm tired of him being blamed for Robb's failure to communicate.

[Mad Monkey]

Yea, he even pushes Hoster Tully's funeral boat down the river with some other bannermen and gives his condolences for what happened at Winterfell. All the while planning with Roose Bolton to kill everyone present.

Dangerous guy. He (cunning, diplomatic, and ruthless), Black Walder (a feared but effective warrior), and Stevron (courageous, good head on his shoulders) are all valuable assets for House Frey, but they're outnumbered by the dumb toadies and craven weasels

The Freys biggest problem might actually be their numbers. Most of the other main houses that we have seen are relatively small. Putting cadet branches and cousins aside, you usually have a mother, a father, maybe some grandparents, and about 4-5 children. The Starks all turned out OK up until the books started, the Tyrells are fine, the Martells were good...

But Walder has like 50 children and grandchildren, and the chances that all of them will turn out to be great people are pretty low.

[Wmarshal]

Anyone else notice the most powerful wizard in Westeros is a Riverman? Or his apprentice is blood of the Rivermen, not the Targ/Stark half breed Jon Snow?

[Torrhen Blackwood]

Anyone else notice the most powerful wizard in Westeros is a Riverman? Or his apprentice is blood of the Rivermen, not the Targ/Stark half breed Jon Snow?

I think it is important to note that Bloodraven has the blood of the First Men and Old Valyria running through his veins. Same as Jon Snow, if what most of us believe is true.