Jon’s queen ~ Adding all foreshadowings up.

[Lord Baalish]

I don't get this one.

I get that one better then

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness.

What does a blue flower growing from a wall of ice have to do with Dany marrying Jon? Please enlighten me :)

[Ghost's Shadow]

Val, surely.

Just a pity that she is about 6-8 years older than him.

That's a pleasant surprise. I somehow had the idea that she was around 25 or thereabouts. Young in our world. Quite ancient compared to the main cast in Ice and Fire.

If it turns out she is actually 18, well, that would put her very much in 16 year old Jon's peer group.

Why is your Jon stuck as a 16 yo when he's older now?

Also, if Val were to be mid-twenties, there's really no explanation for why she doesn't have children with any of her partners. These people probably live a harsh and not so long life, and to get to a population of their size they would start pretty early, too. Ygritte at 19 didn't have children, which is odd too, but to make Val mid-twenties? Nah.

If Robb at 15 was a successful war commander, and Jon at 16 or 17 gets to be LC, then Val doesn't need to be made mid-twenties for her to bring back Tormund to Jon on a one-eyed horse.

Having said that, I do think Val is around 20-22, but that's just the age difference between Jon/Ygritte as well.

If you take Dalla into account, we don't know her age either, but she could be a few years older than Val. Miscarriages do happen, or children die young.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

Hold on, I know we don't like the idea necessarily of Jon marrying a cousin (Arya or Sansa), but in asoiaf, marrying your cousin is perfectly accepted. Tywin married his cousin, for example (though I don't remember their exact relation, if they were 1st cousins or not). And considering a lot of the story is based on medieval Europe, the monarchs of Europe were basically all cousins eventually and kept marrying each other over generations to solidify alliances. I don't want Jon to end up with Arya or Sansa but idk if we should consider it incest.

I don't think the foreshadowing so far is sufficient to give us a likely answer, but I would say Shireen fits Jon's character the best. She isn't the wife he would pick for himself, but she is the true heir of King Robert, and marrying her could politically be the best choice for the world when all is said and done.

[Mad Monkey]

The blue rose is symbol often used to represent Lyanna in dreams and visions, and it has been linked to Jon Snow through the Bael the Bard story. There is a good run down in the first post of this thread (here) as well as on the asoiaf.westeros.org wiki.

As far as Dany goes, Dany is the one who sees that vision in the House of the Undying of the blue rose growing out of ice. Since this probably isn't a literal event it's most likely a vision relating to Jon.

I don't really get the castle thing though. What chapter is it even from?

[Ghost's Shadow]

Jon messed up her hair. “I will miss you, little sister.”

Suddenly she looked like she was going to cry. “I wish you were coming with us.”

“Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle. Who knows?”

That's from their goodbyes.

As Arya was going to King's Landing, it's perhaps more foreshadowing, if you will, of Jon heading there too, in the end.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

What does a blue flower growing from a wall of ice have to do with Dany marrying Jon? Please enlighten me :)

I don't agree it is what others believe, not me.

[furiousmoose0]

I am trying to make a list of foreshadowings about possible Queens for Jon.

Val:

Dany:

Sansa: from here

Arya:

Shireen: from here

Others:

Arianne, Asha, Marg

What do you think about the list? What you would add?

PS: If you think that Jon will not end with someone good for you but I am looking for foreshadowings not personal opinions.

I am sorry, but no way am I following the Sansa/Arya route. And besides, his marriage is far from a sure thing. I could see GRRM leaving Jon Snow on the wall as a great unsung hero defending Westeros. This of course would mean he will not marry. If this isn't his fate, Val is the only on the list who I would consider a possibility though not likely. Free folk don't view couplings as polotical maneuvers, something Jon knows well, so it unlikely he would marry one. The only likely places for him to end up, besides the Wall (which I think likely if the Wall survives), is KL or WF (the latter only being if Rickon doesn't survive. I highly doubt he takes that away from Ned's children). If KL, it makes much more sense to brokerage an alliance with a surviving house in power. Alyanna comes to mind. Possibly ever Margeary. If he came into WF, his marital motives would be the same, although his marriage proposals wouldn't be as notable (also, more like than not, would come from the north. As a newly made trueborn he would need to establish himself as such).

To go down your list though...

Dany,

She currently can't control her dragons or the city that she has conquered. If she does make it to Westeros (personally I think she has a little bit of "madness" in her so I hope not), she expects (and won't take "no" for an answer I suspect) to be queen. Jon will play the fool in court. As much as he is different from Ned, he still has much of his characteristic honour instilled in him. He will not become just a face for people to see. He would much rather play the same role where no one can see him.

Sansa,

Even though I am vehemently against this I'll answer as if I am not. Sansa, first off, has always viewed Jon as a bastard. Something he is not likely to forget. Sansa currently is with LF (who seems to have intentions of ruling through her), and has a marriage lined up. Even with LF out of the picture, neither Sansa, nor Jon will forget their previous relationship. They won't confuse their last names either.

Arya,

This one will be brief. Arya, simply put, will not end up a lady of the court (unless she is wearing another face). Most like than not, she will not present herself as Arya Stark again. On top of that her and Jon we way too close at an early age for a marriage to be considered by either party.

Shireen,

This is a more difficult one to explain without delving too much into theories that are out there. I don't think Shireen will make it TBH. GRRM's focus on greyscale recently, along with Val's testimony, seem to foreshadow something. I don't know and what I think is unvalidated, but I think it bodes ill for Shireen. Even if nothing comes to pass, however, she is an incredibly improbable, if not impossible, candidate. Stannis must have perished, first off. He will not surrender. This means that if a Targ claims the throne, he will refute them to his dying breath. There is a scenario were she is married to Jon after Stannis' death (if that happens), but again....political reasoning would dismiss that proposal.

[Ice Turtle]

To quote myself about Jon and Arya:

To add something...

1, You will marry a king

I agree that "you will marry a king" sounds awkward from Ned at the time, but for me that means strong point towards foreshadowing. Otherwise, why keep the line at all?

There are few other, though more arguable:

2. Kissing

… all but this one, this one-eared black devil of a tomcat. “That’s the real king of this castle right there,” one of the gold cloaks had told her. “Older than sin and twice as mean. One time, the king was feasting the queen’s father, and that black bastard hopped up on the table and snatched a roast quail right out of Lord Tywin’s fingers.

about the same cat:

Ever so fast, she kissed him right between the eyes,

Jon is thrice called black bastard in the books. By Tormund, Ratlleshirt and some unnamed man in Braavos. Only one other character is called by the same nickname and only once and that is Yoren when Rorge finds out that Arya is a girl. And actually Arya and sexuality are involved in the same sentence:

Yoren’s little cunt,” he called her. “Guess we know why that black bastard wanted you on the Wall, don’t we?”

So far Arya kissed someone in the series three times. Never in a sexual fashion, but I still think that the list is suggestive. In AGoT she showers Jon with kisses and kisses a cat called the black bastard, in AFfC she kisses The Kindly Man while he wears a face of a corpse. Sort of she kisses a dead man. A lot of people think that Jon will die or at least "die" and if there is a one female comfortable to have a voluntary relationship with a dead man, it's Arya.

3, swords and coats of arms

Jon shrugged. “Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.”

But Jon gives Arya a sword and I believe that one day he might get the "coat of arms" he always wished for at least for his children if they marry. Then there is also compassion with another scene where a woman gets a sword from a man and it's Brienne and Jaime. In this case some romantic feelings are clearly involved. Ironically the sword is one of two pieces which were made from Ice. Interesting is that Jaime has never gavea sword to Cersei, even when she has wished for it, though truthfully I am not sure how to interpret that.

4, Jon's taste in women:

Ygritte (is compared to Arya awfully lot):

grabbing the man by the hair and jamming the point of the knife up under his chin as he reached for his—no, her—
His hand froze. “A girl.”
“A watcher,” said Stonesnake. “A wildling. Finish her.”
Jon could see fear and fire in her eyes. Blood ran down her white throat from where the point of his dirk had pricked her. One thrust and it’s done, he told himself. He was so close he could smell onion on her breath. She is no older than I am. Something about her made him think of Arya, though they looked nothing at all alike.

She looked plump as she crouched there, but most of that was layers of fur and wool and leather. Underneath all that she could be as skinny as Arya.


She wasn’t wed and her weapon of choice was a short curved bow of horn and weirwood, but “spearwife” fit her all the same. She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore.


“If you kill a man, and never mean t’, he’s just as dead,” Ygritte said stubbornly. Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya.

Val (is attractive because she is lovely, lonely ...and lethal) :

Val stood on the tower roof, gazing up at the Wall. Stannis kept her closely penned in rooms above his own, but he did allow her to walk the battlements for exercise. She looks lonely, Jon thought. Lonely, and lovely. Ygritte had been pretty in her own way, with her red hair kissed by fire, but it was her smile that made her face come alive. Val did not need to smile; she would have turned men’s heads in any court in the wide world.
All the same, the wildling princess was not beloved of her gaolers. She scorned them all as “kneelers,” and had thrice attempted to escape. When one man-at-arms grew careless in her presence she had snatched his dagger from its sheath and stabbed him in the neck. Another inch to the left and he might have died.
Lonely and lovely and lethal, Jon Snow reflected, and I might have had her.

Why not? thought Jon. They are all convinced she is a princess. Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her.


Alys (sometimes reminds Jon of guess who.., thought probably not as much as Ygritee. He marries her to Sigorn after all.)

she does look a bit like Arya, Jon thought. Starved and skinny, but her hair’s the same color, and her eyes.

The girl smiled in a way that reminded Jon so much of his little sister that it almost broke his heart.

She rubbed away a tear angrily, the way Arya might have done it.


4, Little sister

Jon is very likely a Targeryen or at least a Targ bastard, though he is unaware of the fact. If he is calling some female "sister" It's a foreshadowing of itself.

[KINGpanther]

Hold on, I know we don't like the idea necessarily of Jon marrying a cousin (Arya or Sansa), but in asoiaf, marrying your cousin is perfectly accepted. Tywin married his cousin, for example (though I don't remember their exact relation, if they were 1st cousins or not). And considering a lot of the story is based on medieval Europe, the monarchs of Europe were basically all cousins eventually and kept marrying each other over generations to solidify alliances. I don't want Jon to end up with Arya or Sansa but idk if we should consider it incest.

I don't think the foreshadowing so far is sufficient to give us a likely answer, but I would say Shireen fits Jon's character the best. She isn't the wife he would pick for himself, but she is the true heir of King Robert, and marrying her could politically be the best choice for the world when all is said and done.

If Jon IS R+L=J, then Jon+Sansa as cousins wouldnt be to bad considering they weren't very close as supposide bro+sis but Jon+Arya who had a strong Brother+sister relationship would make me physically sick.

[Ingelheim]

Tze's essay about Sansa-Jon should be here. One of the most wonderful posts ever made in this forum.

[Roddy the Ruin]

JONXASHA :commie:

[Ghost's Shadow]

No one marries Greyjoys, seriously.

[Roddy the Ruin]

No one marries Greyjoys, seriously.

Jon deserves a black haired beauty who is dynamite in the sack :commie:

[Ghost's Shadow]

Jon doesn't like dark haired girls. ;)

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Jon deserves a black haired beauty who is dynamite in the sack :commie:

If he's a Targ, he can poligamy Arianne and Asha. Jariasha.

[Roddy the Ruin]

If he's a Targ, he can poligamy Arianne and Asha. Jariasha.

Jon is that awesome so I can see that happen,

[Silverscream]

Tze's essay about Sansa-Jon should be here. One of the most wonderful posts ever made in this forum.

I think you've mistaken 'wonderful' for 'the most inaccurate post taken seriously on this forum.' It's full of inaccuracies and conjecture dressed up as foreshadowing and parallels to make people believe in it's validity. The opening line isn't even accurate, these two are far from the only Starks who have never interacted on page. And besides, it was never meant to be a shipping manifesto to begin with.

Anyway, a marriage between cousins would work fine if Jon was in fact raised as Rhaegar's son and was a political match, but Arya and Sansa aren't just his cousins, they're his siblings. And Ned will always be his father, no matter if Rhaegar donated his sperm or not. Not just that, the whole reason why Sansa's thoughts about him are poignant are because it's the first time she's treated him as one of her brothers, instead of othering him because he's a bastard. Why go back on that to make them bang just because 'oops we're not really siblings' even though they've spent most of their lives thinking as such?

But this is all missing the most important detail: Jon likes his women older. :cool4:

[Whipsy]

I'm not sure if Jon will marry anybody by the end. This may be an unpopular idea but I believe his story arc is one of duty and honor. That's not to say he doesn't do dishonorable things or make decisions for love but I think the ultimate idea is that Jon's duty to the oaths he has made are the only things he will stay married to in the end. I would like to think that if Jon is a Targaryen and Rhaegar's legitimate heir that we will see a repeat of the story Maester Aemon told Jon and Jon Snow will remain Jon Snow, a man who renounced all titles for his duties.

But of course I could be completely fucking wrong and GRRM will remind me of how little I know. It has happened before and will happen again. It is known.

In which case, I am throwing my hat in for Lollys as well.

[Ingelheim]

I think you've mistaken 'wonderful' for 'the most inaccurate post taken seriously on this forum.' It's full of inaccuracies and conjecture dressed up as foreshadowing and parallels to make people believe in it's validity. The opening line isn't even accurate, these two are far from the only Starks who have never interacted on page. And besides, it was never meant to be a shipping manifesto to begin with.

Anyway, a marriage between cousins would work fine if Jon was in fact raised as Rhaegar's son and was a political match, but Arya and Sansa aren't just his cousins, they're his siblings. And Ned will always be his father, no matter if Rhaegar donated his sperm or not. Not just that, the whole reason why Sansa's thoughts about him are poignant are because it's the first time she's treated him as one of her brothers, instead of othering him because he's a bastard. Why go back on that to make them bang just because 'oops we're not really siblings' even though they've spent most of their lives thinking as such?

But this is all missing the most important detail: Jon likes his women older. :cool4:

Well, I can only say I completely disagree with you on Tze's essay. And for Jon and older woman...That's true :cool4:

[Northern Nomad]

Based on this thread i can confirm one thing: Jon has 99 problems, but...