memeka Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Unfortunately, Jaime might be one of the major casualties in tWoW. I am not going to make a big post about this, with quotes and intricate theories (this is my first post here after long time lurking), just look at a couple of hints: 1) Symmetry. The head of house Stark died, followed by his first-born. The head of house Lannister died...2) Tyrion's dream. Tyrion is fighting against an army in ice armour. Dragons are circling. I think this is a vision of the (final?) battle between the Others and humans. The North is lost, the battle is at the Trident. Tyrion dreams the head of that army is his father, which he kills again - figuratively meaning that he's fighting the dead - because indeed he will be fighting the dead. Then he fights Jaime. I think this is an important clue - by that time, Jaime will be dead. I know the valonqar theory about Jaime being the one to kill Cersei - but Tyrion is Cersei's little brother too. And I find it much more ... entertaining ... to have Cersei's worst nightmare - Tyrion killing her - become a reality. Rather than have her surprised by Jaime. Her entire life she feared Tyrion will kill her - why not have her fear come true? Also, it's a bit hard for Jaime to strangle her, with one hand and all. I think his storyline is pretty much complete. There is nothing much he can offer us. He has partially redeemed himself, now what? What can he offer to LS in exchange for his life? What can LS want for him but to die? Why would she let him go a second time? What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memeka Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 Erm, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Human Abstract Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Those sounds like interesting points, but I definitely don't feel his storyline is complete. In fact, I kinda feel that it's been left open that he do something greater. I have no idea why LS would free him, but since looking at the book and realizing he ain't done squat, he still.... ain't done squat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jslay427 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Some good points in there. I wouldn't doubt he dies in Winds, I'd bet he gets free of the LSH meeting somehow. His arc could use a little more redemption before I can call him redeemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urien the Ragged Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 i don't think Jaime needs redemption, it would be kind of lame and formulaic if he gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Meryn Frey Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Some good points in there. I wouldn't doubt he dies in Winds, I'd bet he gets free of the LSH meeting somehow. His arc could use a little more redemption before I can call him redeemed. You don't get redeemed from trying to kill an innocent boy. I'm not saying he's automatically "evil" forever. I'm just saying: nothing can make up for what he did to Bran. Nothing. It doesn't matter in which situation he was - if you attempt the murder of an innocent child, you don't get redeemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegeta_Greyjoy Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Jaime's one of the few POVs where he's haunted by dreams of unfinished business. On top of that, he's trying to do right by Brienne and the Starks, as well as finally prove himself as a courageous warrior and maybe admit to fathering 3 illegitimate incestuous bastards(if he has time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memeka Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 For those that read Wheel Of Time, I see Jaime as having the same fate as Gawyn Trakand...Trying to make up for something but he doesn't know for what exactly (he's not trying to make up for Bran, but rather he somehow tries to motivate his killing of the Mad King, and he's conflicted if it was the right thing or not, if the should be feeling guilty or not). And in the end, dying in a truly spectacularly stupid way. W/o achieving anything. So much hope and talent, wasted :) It's the way of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memeka Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Jaime's one of the few POVs where he's haunted by dreams of unfinished business. On top of that, he's trying to do right by Brienne and the Starks, as well as finally prove himself as a courageous warrior and maybe admit to fathering 3 illegitimate incestuous bastards(if he has time). From what he knows, there are no more starks around. And by the time he decides to admit his bastards, they will all be dead. And Brienne... well, Brienne is already broken by the decision that she made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddardsHead Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 Its too predictable for Jamie to return after his Dance cliffhanger just to immediately die at the hands of LSH. His arc isn't done IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memeka Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 Its too predictable for Jamie to return after his Dance cliffhanger just to immediately die at the hands of LSH. His arc isn't done IMO yes, i would be indeed disappointed for him to die so fast. probably there will be more going on there.... though, like i said previously, i can see him dead before getting any redemption / w/o doing anything important in the grand scheme of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amris Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 There is an excellent post concerning Jaime's future story arc by zach9934 in this thread: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/59906-cersei-and-jamie-are-targaryens/page-21 Whether zach9934 is right or not we cannot know as yet but I don't think GRRM would waste a character he developed this much over the books by just having him die with no gain for the storyline. Not only would Jaime's chapters feel wasted but also Brienne's since Brienne's main function in the story - as far as I can see at least - seems to be to help transform Jaime from the Jerk he is in AGOT to someone else. I think we can take it as a give that Jaime has an important role to play yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memeka Posted November 11, 2014 Author Share Posted November 11, 2014 We can safely say that Cersei and Jaime are not the mad king's kids. Joanna Lannister did not leave Casterly Rock for 3 years before they were born.However, Joanna and the mad king were in the same place the year before Tywin was born. And I would see GRRM killing a character he developed this much. Look at Robb, his wife, Small Jon, Mormont heir and all others in Robb's personal guard. There were many that were carefully built there, and gone now. Having this big red herring is within the realm of possibility with GRRM :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jslay427 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 You don't get redeemed from trying to kill an innocent boy. I'm not saying he's automatically "evil" forever. I'm just saying: nothing can make up for what he did to Bran. Nothing. It doesn't matter in which situation he was - if you attempt the murder of an innocent child, you don't get redeemed. Oh I agree, I guess I should have worded it differently. I guess I meant that he has more to do if he is going to be remembered as more than just the person who tried to kill an innocent child Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I think Jaime is really at risk of being killed in the next book. GRRM has said he want's to cut down POVs and I don't see Jaime as being a pivotal POV in any sense. He'll either be offed by LS or die trying to stop Cersei blowing up KL. Also Tyrion never getting a chance to make up with his brother then have to regret it his whole life is something GRRM would definitely do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little and Less Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I've always thought that the "unfinished business" for Jaime wasn't redemption for him killing the Mad King or for pushing Bran out the window, but that he didn't protect Rheagar's children - whom Rheagar believed at least one was TPTWP. Jaime's dream hints that this is a very big unresloved issue in his life as a Knight. In Jaime's wierwood dream, Rheagar is sad, not because he killed his father the Mad King but that he didn't protect the future TPTWP. (I think that is why Brienne and Jaime are naked in this dream - more for the idea of realizing exactly what a Knight stands for (strip it down to the core of why he became a Knight in the first place.) So my little pet theory is that Jaime will redeem himself by protecting one of Rheagar's children - Jon Snow (R+L). Whether Jon is TPTWP is another matter, but for now it works in my theory. So I'm guessing Jaime is around until the end. Since I think Jon and Bran will be working together, Jaime may also find redemption with Bran's journey as well. Part of the theory is also that Jaime (Jon) and Tyrion (Dany) will meet but on opposite sides. So the Tyrion dream where he fights his father - could be Jaime, but not sure. May indicate that they will be on opposing sides at some point. I'm still not convinced that Jaime will kill Cersei - (I kind of feel this was the original GRRM plan, when there was only suppose to be 3 books) but I'm not sure when GRRM will have time to do this with only 2 books left. I've always liked the idea that Tommen will kill her - if he ever finds out that he is a bastard and that wars were started because Jaime is really his father - I don't think he is as forgiving or as weak as we all think. He is the grandson of Tywin Lannister after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznak mo Reznak Posted November 11, 2014 Share Posted November 11, 2014 I think Jaime is really at risk of being killed in the next book. GRRM has said he want's to cut down POVs and I don't see Jaime as being a pivotal POV in any sense. He says it in jest. He's not going to off POVs just because there are a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonSnowed Posted November 12, 2014 Share Posted November 12, 2014 I must admit I thought Jamie could die in Winds however the shows decision to sign him up for seven seasons now makes me believe he will make it through to ADOS. I now see him and Cersai dying in the first half of that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Jaime will strangle Cersei before he dies in ADoS. It is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamSongs Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Everything is just theory at this point :dunno: I don't see Cersei dying by Jaime's hand unless he is AAR. In which case, his killing Cersei would make sense. I know at one point people were speculating it as a mercy killing. I would argue that Jaime's main conflict is discovering his own purpose. He's spent his life with kings, a sister, a father and a brother all pulling him apart by the limbs. What happens is a fractured character that is able to be chameleon depending on who he is with. That is what makes him such a memorable character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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