What Stannis Could Have Done

[Frey Pie]

The Stannis we see in Clash is not in the best of shape. He has a huge navy, but very little men, somewhere around 5000. He sends out a missive telling the realm Joffrey is a bastard but nobody listens to him. He calls for the Stormlords to follow him but they laugh at him-they have the King they want. We all know what Stannis did, and we all know it nearly worked...but it didn't. And he paid a high price for it- lost a brother, most of his fleet, half his men, the enmity of thousands more.

So what could he have done differently?

Quite simply, taken a leaf out of Dance of Dragons Stannis. The difference here in the man is huge-before he wanted the realm because of his "right", now he's fighting for the good of the realm.

In my opinion Stannis should have gone and earned the crown from the beginning. As far back as GOT we know Stannis is up to something. He see's Robb Stark marching South to protect his family, he know's Tywin is burning and ravaging "his people" in the Riverlands.

For me the most important thing about a King is that he should protect the people. Tywin was actively targeting a weak populace and wreaking havoc. Stannis could have taken his force around Cracklaw point and sailed by the Bay of Crabs, docking at Saltpans. From here he could have helped relieve the pressure on the Riverlands, helped Robb and Edmure, and shown the realm that he is a King through deed, not through name.

These three could have been allies had Stannis acted. Would Robb then have been crowned with Stannis there? Not in my opinion. The lords are looking for an alternative to Joffrey and Robb knows Stannis is the rightful heir, now through birth and deeds. From here who knows what would happen but Stannis could have been very strong, a real contender for the throne

Admittedly this is a risk, and could work out differently. But Robb was made a King because of his deeds first, and his blood second. Stannis could have done the same

[juanml82]

I'm not entirely sure if Stannis 5000 could have made a stand at the Riverlands. Maybe, if the garrison Harrenhall before Tywin reaches it in his retreat after the Green Fork, or if they garrison they southern end of the Ruby Ford by the same time - so Tywin has a 3 to 1 advantage across a determined defense force across a river while a mostly infantry force is coming behind him.

I think his best bet would have been to seize King's Landing in a coup du main. The city had a 2000 garrison so his 5k may have not been enough in a set battle, but he could have infiltrated men among the refugees or bribed his way in. He also had both Davos and Melissandre at her service. The Red Keep would still have been a tough nut to crack with his remaining men but it could have been doable, and once it falls, he has Cersei and all three of her children. I do think the best way to accomplish this would have been to join forces with Robb and pick up reinforcements at White Harbor or even Skagos (which was left unused by Robb), and then he falls on KL with some 10,000 men and takes it.

And yes, milk the whole "Joffrey is attacking the Realm and the King is supposed to defend it" for all it was worth

[In A Coat of Gold]

Stannis is just too rigid. He has no friends, and as Renly so eloquently put it "A man without friends, is a man without power"

If he had immediately assaulted King's Landing, he probably could have taken the city and crowned himself. He'd still have to deal with Renly, but he'd be in better position to negotiate with others, though he probably wouldn't negotiate.

[Gibzit]

Stannis shouldn't have attacked Renly, He should have landed on the south of the claw, and attacked the crownlander cities, distracting the lannisters from Renly, and after Renly captures KL, then he could talk with him about who should be king and/or murder him and inherit all his stuff.

[Lion of the West]

The main problems for Stannis is that Robb wants his own crown, and Stannis isn't ready to give it to him, and Renly has by far the largest army and is way more popular than Stannis. So even if Stannis could make a quick strike at King's Landing, it would only serve to allow Renly to overtake it a month or so later and then make himself king. Stannis gains little to nothing in his quest for the crown.

[Hangover of the Morning]

He should have supported Renly or stay grinding his teeth on Dragonstone and do nothing.

He claims that he doesn't want to be a king and doesn't enjoy politics so why get involved? Nobody wants him for their king and he has no friends or allies. Renly clearly does and as Stannis know is fighting the right war since Joffrey is illegitimate. Renly would also almost certainly be a decent king at least, not worse than Robert. Stannis could have asked Renly for Stormlands and a seat on the council if that's what he wanted.

Stannis just can't stand the fact that he'll be once again overshadowed by his more proactive siblings. He also likes to listen to a hot witch telling him that he is secretly super special.

[In A Coat of Gold]

The main problems for Stannis is that Robb wants his own crown, and Stannis isn't ready to give it to him, and Renly has by far the largest army and is way more popular than Stannis. So even if Stannis could make a quick strike at King's Landing, it would only serve to allow Renly to overtake it a month or so later and then make himself king. Stannis gains little to nothing in his quest for the crown.

He'd at least be King. For however long that lasts...or maybe he uses his fleet and strikes elsewhere, Sack Lannisport and take every shred of gold you can find to hire sellswords. His position is quite hopeless, I agree.

[Frey Pie]

I'm not entirely sure if Stannis 5000 could have made a stand at the Riverlands. Maybe, if the garrison Harrenhall before Tywin reaches it in his retreat after the Green Fork, or if they garrison they southern end of the Ruby Ford by the same time - so Tywin has a 3 to 1 advantage across a determined defense force across a river while a mostly infantry force is coming behind him.

I think his best bet would have been to seize King's Landing in a coup du main. The city had a 2000 garrison so his 5k may have not been enough in a set battle, but he could have infiltrated men among the refugees or bribed his way in. He also had both Davos and Melissandre at her service. The Red Keep would still have been a tough nut to crack with his remaining men but it could have been doable, and once it falls, he has Cersei and all three of her children. I do think the best way to accomplish this would have been to join forces with Robb and pick up reinforcements at White Harbor or even Skagos (which was left unused by Robb), and then he falls on KL with some 10,000 men and takes it.

And yes, milk the whole "Joffrey is attacking the Realm and the King is supposed to defend it" for all it was worth

He could have made it to Harrenhal as you say. Even if he is late Tywin likely only leaves a small force there- he needs all his men for Robb. Stannis should be able to take it. Alternatively to this if he is contact with Robb he could attempt to meet up with him at Riverrun, or menaced Tywins rear at the Green Fork

Your idea on White Harbor has a lot of merit to it IMO

Stannis is just too rigid. He has no friends, and as Renly so eloquently put it "A man without friends, is a man without power"

If he had immediately assaulted King's Landing, he probably could have taken the city and crowned himself. He'd still have to deal with Renly, but he'd be in better position to negotiate with others, though he probably wouldn't negotiate.

I agree Stannis was to rigid, but he is more relaxed as of Dance. He knows he has to bend to be King and is a completely different animal. I thought about the taking of KL and he likely could have, but his host would be weak quite severely IMO

And to be honest he still has no allies, and nobody with reason to enter into one. Allies are what he sorely needs

[Frey Pie]

The main problems for Stannis is that Robb wants his own crown, and Stannis isn't ready to give it to him, and Renly has by far the largest army and is way more popular than Stannis. So even if Stannis could make a quick strike at King's Landing, it would only serve to allow Renly to overtake it a month or so later and then make himself king. Stannis gains little to nothing in his quest for the crown.

Robb is not too enamoured with his crown, especially not compared to all the others who wear them. In any case the premise of the thread is Stannis moving early, before Robb has been crowned. Regardless of this fact (which I thought was clear in the OP?) had Stannis made common cause with Robb and helped gain justice I'm sure the Northmen could have been moved to declare for him, as they are in Dance. For a greater chance at peace Robb would have bent the knee to someone deserving

[Barrick Eddon]

He could have made it to Harrenhal as you say. Even if he is late Tywin likely only leaves a small force there- he needs all his men for Robb. Stannis should be able to take it. Alternatively to this if he is contact with Robb he could attempt to meet up with him at Riverrun, or menaced Tywins rear at the Green Fork

It's a suicide attempt to menace Tywins rear at the GF most of Stannis host is afoot and few on horse and Tywin had 7500 knights with him .

The best chance for Stannis is to sail to the Vale , possibly Runestone and tell them the truth about why Jon Arryn was murdered and Eddard imprisoned .

[Lord Lannister]

If Stannis had a little bend to him, he probably could have won. Not making common cause with Renly and Robb was insanity even if it is, "I'll deal with you later once our common enemies are dead." But it wouldn't be Stannis if he did that.

[Frey Pie]

It's a suicide attempt to menace Tywins rear at the GF most of Stannis host is afoot and few on horse and Tywin had 7500 knights with him .

The best chance for Stannis is to sail to the Vale , possibly Runestone and tell them the truth about why Jon Arryn was murdered and Eddard imprisoned .

While I would not advise stannis to take this course of action I wouldn't call it suicide. Stannis is a very good commander and Tywin has an army the same size as his in front of him (so far as he knows). I would think stannis could pinch at tywins host and retreat before contact for example but he's never going to be the anvil to Roose's hammer I agree

[Gibzit]

It's a suicide attempt to menace Tywins rear at the GF most of Stannis host is afoot and few on horse and Tywin had 7500 knights with him .

The best chance for Stannis is to sail to the Vale , possibly Runestone and tell them the truth about why Jon Arryn was murdered and Eddard imprisoned .

Jon arryn was mudered by lysa tully, not the lannisters.

[Barrick Eddon]

Jon arryn was mudered by lysa tully, not the lannisters.

And no one knows about that except Lysa and LF .

[Chaircat Meow]

Keep Jon Arryn alive.

Stannis's problem is that he doesn't have connections with, or trust in, the other members of the great alliance that brought Robert to the throne. That's why he had to go to Jon about the incest. Only Jon could bring Robert, Ned and Edmure on board, and potentially reach out to the Tyrells. Once Jon was dead Stannis was left without a way to access his potential allies and with no actual proof of the bastardry. He'd have been very reluctant to present himself to Robb and the Starks on that basis.

[hodorisfaclessman]

He could have sent a message and fully armed retinue (50+ men or so) to ned stark explaining in detail what he belived happened jon arryn and why , where all the bastards where and instructions to his men to guard ned (thus evening the odds a little between stark and lannisters forces in kl)

[King of the Rock]

Support Renly, then push him off his horse during the siege of King's Landing when no one's looking.

[Hodor the Articulate]

Not be Stannis.

[Good Guy Garlan]

Just sending his letter sooner would have made a lot of difference. The northerners would have realized Stannis was at least actively pushing his own claim, and maybe Robb never gets crowned

[Qhorin Halfhand and Yoren]

Not sure how many men he had at that point but if he had a fighting chance he should have taken it. Seizing this opportunity while King's Landing is lead by the fools Cersei and Joffrey. When Robert dies, invade the city, send the letters and proclaim himself king. By acting fast and proclaiming himself king, Stannis has a chance with the anti-Lannister faction, mainly Robb and Renly. And hey, he still has shadowbaby ammo if needed. Though in this case Renly would have to rebel against Stannis and not Joffrey.