Red Wedding Cake Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Sansa was just a little girl and Arya didn't exactly have a great attitude to her as well. There are certain things that go out of bounds, even for fictional children. Lying about your sister's dead friend and wishing your sister was dead instead of your pet is too much for some people to handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Agreed Ned is the reason Ned is dead. But Sansa was a big help in the downfall. So far i am gathering that people like Sansa because she was a Naive turkey who litterally was the oppposite of what is needed to survive this novel who then is Manipulated into a sociopath by a man named after his lesser man region. Is that the gist of the Sansa love? First of all, I like Sansa because she is a much more realistic character than many others in the serie. Sansa could be my kid sister when she was young. Arya is more of a mythological archetype than a real person AFAIC in comparison and I don't feel much connection to such characters. Secondly, a good part of the reason she is naive at the start of the serie is Ned himself! He completely sheltered her (and Arya for that matter) from the reality of her world and gave poivided for her no political education whatsoever. Yet as the daughter of a Lord Paramount she was always destined for a much more political marriage than the average lady. It's like raising a lamb for the slaughter! Did he once take her aside to explain her the complexity of the situation he was navigating? No, never. He was a nice man but very paternalistic and it's a great irony that this is a small part of his downfall. A very small part, mind you, because it's delirious to see Sansa's small act of defiance as the main source of Ned's downfall. And her defiance is easy to understand when her father without explanation tried to take away from her everything he himself had raised her to desire! After her eyes were brutally opened, I think she conducted herself with great inner strenght and seem to have retained a good part of her kinder nature which require a lot of resilience and that's admirable. It's also a realistic portrayal of humanity thrown into hardship, a much more realistic and poignant one than discovering warging power and being given shelter by master assassins, if you ask me... Finally, Sansa's chapter are great because she is constantly in position to witness events that greatly contribute to our understanding of the serie, making them all extremely relevant. The overall plot takes greater strides in Sansa's chapter than most. Bottom line, she's my second favorite character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 There are certain things that go out of bounds, even for fictional children. Lying about your sister's dead friend and wishing your sister was dead instead of your pet is too much for some people to handle. Those people should get over it. They are children. They say stupid things. They have emotional outbursts. Why? Because they are children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I think were definitely meant to hate Sansa in AGOT, but as others have posted, its about her development as a person, and in Feast she is becoming smart, who knows how much awesomeness she will pull off in winds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 There are certain things that go out of bounds, even for fictional children. Lying about your sister's dead friend and wishing your sister was dead instead of your pet is too much for some people to handle. Of course the vast majority of the same readers are big fans of the likes of Tyrion/Jaime/Theon/Stannis/Arya, all multiple murderers. Which is a bit contradictory, to put it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser RoddyRuinuous Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I hated Sansa for a long time (up until AFFC). Then, I found her more likeable. Her story is interesting now, though I still don't like Sansa very much. That said, I think that her plot is going towards very interesting developments, and I'm interested in how she develops. But even after she starts to become awakened and aware, I find her to be somewhat obnoxious. My least favorite Stark, by far. The Starks tried to create a perfect southron lady in Sansa; it was what she was raised to be. The only hope for her is that she's finally figuring out that being a perfect Southron lady sucks, and is finally starting to chafe against the role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrio Fo-real Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 The idea of Cersei making anyone smarter... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:You can learn what NOT to do by watching someone too. Cersei taught Sansa to be suspicious of everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 There are certain things that go out of bounds, even for fictional children. Lying about your sister's dead friend and wishing your sister was dead instead of your pet is too much for some people to handle. :lol: Name me one character in the serie who isn't guilty of far worse! And without the excuse of being an 11 year kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I never was a big Sansa fan. In the first novel, she was just... annoying with her idealized passions. I thought it was low on so many levels for her to lie on Joffrey's behalf against Arya. Not that she deserved to be Joffrey and Cersei's plaything like she was in the next two novels. Odd that Tyrion of all people was the only one who stuck up for her. I will say she's gone through a lot of changes. Though honestly I'm thinking she's having a case of Stockholm syndrome with Littlefinger, which is somewhat disturbing and definitely isn't endearing me to her either. All in all she seems to represent the victim of the series, always in the thick of things but usually powerless to do anything about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhousigilisthehousecat Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Obligatory link to Sansa being the worst person in Westeros: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/30326-sansa-is-the-worst-person-in-westeros/ She was pretty infuriating for about 2.5 books, but she's also portrayed dead-on accurate for a girl of her age- making bad decisions but showing just enough maturity that you think she should know better. She eventually won me over by being one of very few POVs who shies away from killing and violence. After all that's happened to her, it's pretty astounding that she's not the one reading a list of names every night. Not wanting to kill people is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Malenkirk Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I thought it was low on so many levels for her to lie on Joffrey's behalf against Arya. Not that she deserved to be Joffrey and Cersei's plaything like she was in the next two novels. Odd that Tyrion of all people was the only one who stuck up for her. She didn't lie on behlaf of anyone. She lied by claiming she didn't remember what happened because she couldn't commit to taking side against either her fiancee or her family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 You can learn what NOT to do by watching someone too. Cersei taught Sansa to be suspicious of everyone And ruling through fear doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 She didn't lie on behlaf of anyone. She lied by claiming she didn't remember what happened because she couldn't commit to taking side against either her fiancee or her family. She deliberately withheld testimony that could've exonerated Arya. That sounds like taking his side to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 She deliberately withheld testimony that could've exonerated Arya. That sounds like taking his side to me. Arya struck the crown prince that is the truth of the matter. So no she wouldn't have exonerated Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Wedding Cake Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 :lol: Name me one character in the serie who isn't guilty of far worse! And without the excuse of being an 11 year kid. I was replying to a comment about why people side with Arya over Sansa when they fight. Arya apologizes for getting orange juice on Sansa's dress. Sansa doesn't apologize for poking fun at Arya's dead friend. Why people dislike Sansa in general is a bigger discussion. I don't buy her age as an excuse, and naming all the characters that are "far worse" is too much of a scope. There are over 20 POV characters and 200 characters for comparison. Arya struck the crown prince that is the truth of the matter. So no she wouldn't have exonerated Arya. Arya was acting in defense, which is a big difference from outright attacking the prince. We're not even sure Sansa remembers the incident correctly. Just a few chapters later Sansa tells Arya the butcher's boy deserved it and wishes they killed Arya instead of Lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 She didn't lie on behlaf of anyone. She lied by claiming she didn't remember what happened because she couldn't commit to taking side against either her fiancee or her family. And since Ned did not question her on that you got to ask your self why not? Sansa told Ned what actually happened hence she backed up Arya yet; could not commit to it in front of the King Ned should have stepped up and have Sansa tell the King what she told him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 She's a well drawn, well written, realistic character. I don't like her very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I was replying to a comment about why people side with Arya over Sansa when they fight. Arya apologizes for getting orange juice on Sansa's dress. Sansa doesn't apologize for poking fun at Arya's dead friend. Why people dislike Sansa in general is a bigger discussion. I don't buy her age as an excuse, and naming all the characters that are "far worse" is too much of a scope. There are over 20 POV characters and 200 characters for comparison. Arya was acting in defense, which is a big difference from outright attacking the prince. We're not even sure Sansa remembers the incident correctly. Just a few chapters later Sansa tells Arya the butcher's boy deserved it. Arya did not act in self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I was replying to a comment about why people side with Arya over Sansa when they fight. Arya apologizes for getting orange juice on Sansa's dress. Sansa doesn't apologize for poking fun at Arya's dead friend. Why people dislike Sansa in general is a bigger discussion. I don't buy her age as an excuse, and naming all the characters that are "far worse" is too much of a scope. There are over 20 POV characters and 200 characters for comparison. Arya was acting in defense, which is a big difference from outright attacking the prince. We're not even sure Sansa remembers the incident correctly. Just a few chapters later Sansa tells Arya the butcher's boy deserved it. Well compared to Cersei, Sansa's a saint, she pushed no one down a well, Cersei did and this is to tie age related deeds, murder for Cersei, a little cold words for Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady jellybean Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 I hate sansa. She lied about what happened at the trident, and even at her young age, she knew lying was wrong. dont get me wrong cersi wanted the wolves gone and lady would have died anyway. Still doesnt change the fact that she lied. she could have stopped jeyne being mean to arya at any time and she didnt. Which imo implies sansa liked arya being picked on cuz it made her feel better about herself. She kept getting mad cuz arya wasnt getting in trouble. She betrayed her family by going to cersi. So she did have a part in what happened. Not all of it, but she played a part. Even george says that.She is selfish she never asked about arya, come on who doesnt ask about their little sister when people are being killed. Her complaints about jeyne crying alerted the queen to jeynes presence and got jeyne turned over to LF.She never did ANYTHING to escape, she relied on other people to do it for her. And after all the destruction she was a party to she still hoped for her happy ending with willas and the world be damnedShe was mean to tryion when he was trying to help her and it was mostly due to his looks. Cuz she was still in love with joff even after he attacked her sister. But he was so "handsome"And it just gets worse with the reading. I understand people like her, and more power to them. Personally I think that she is going to turn into an evil sansa a mixture of cersi and LF. It might even make her character interesting. I also think she is going to die. LF does have a way of getting rid of people who are no longer useful. And as soon as rickon is back. Sansa goes down in value. But thats neither here nor there. All in all I cant understand the sansa love. But I dont like bratwurst either and some people love it. Too each thier own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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