Ser Not Appearing Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 He has embraced Melisandre, who proclaims him Azor Ahai reborn. In his heart, does he believe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Clegane's head Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 He said so himself, he believes the enemy he was born to fight lays beyond the wall. Stannis wouldn't say something unless he truly believed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It depends on what topic the Stannis fans are defending him on. If it's "he's a religious fanatic," then Stannis is the biggest atheist in the world and can in no way be held responsible for what Melisandre does. If it's "he was going to murder a child," then Stannis was doing it for the greater good of the world because Melisandre says so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only-Cat Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nope...Stannis not even believe in R´hllor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafkeeper Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Yes. During the whole "Should we sacrifice Edric Storm" debate some of the things he says like "She swears that if I don;t the world is fucked can I risk it no I can't" and "Swear it is true Mel or I will make what Ramsay did to Theon look like a jolly lark compared to what I'll do to you" which I don't think he'd say if he didn't have some doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuff89 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 LOL Only fools don't have doubts with respect to deities, and Stannis is no fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oafkeeper Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I dunno, he did marry Selyse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Didn't he say that Robert should have been the Lord of Lights Champion instead of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pox Americana Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Stannis believes in the utility of magic. He may even believe in the actual personifications of that magic, but I doubt they mean anything to him beyond their own use in gaining the Iron Throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Cactus Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I stopped believing in gods the day I saw the Windproud break up across the bay So yes, he is a nonbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Not Appearing Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Isn't there a distinction between his belief in God(s) and his belief that he is truly powerful/special in some meaningful way based on the claims of someone (Mel) he's seen do some powerful (magical) stuff?That is to say: Even if he doesn't necessarily believe in the specific claimed nature of Rh'llor, the power he's witnessed is real and it's pointing at him. Is that enough to believe it?Is he just putting in the Azor Ahai hat to further his claims to the throne... or might he have bought in?(... which could affect his decision making and self preservation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 In ACOK, no. He makes it clear he has no time for gods and is only using Melisandre for what she offers him In ASOS, he's wrestling with it. He's convinced by the vision Melisandre shows him that the great battle is real, but is not entirely convinced of everything Melisandre claims, e.g that he's Azor Ahai, and that her powers are as significant as she claims. In the beginning he questions why R'hllor would choose him over his more popular brothers, and how he's expected to save anything in his position (no ships, no gold, no men), and he bluntly refuses to sacrifice Edric. As the novel goes on (and as Melisandre's claims are increasingly proven) he starts to speculate on what burning Edric would mean (i.e he's considering it in his head), starts to point out the consequences if he dares to disregard everything she's saying, and finally, after threatening Melisandre with a slow death should she be deceiving him, seems to accept. But by then Davos has smuggled Edric away and then he gets told about the wildlings. In ADWD, yes. He is seemingly no longer wrestling with whether or not all this stuff is true and just rolling with it. If it's "he's a religious fanatic," then Stannis is the biggest atheist in the world and can in no way be held responsible for what Melisandre does. If it's "he was going to murder a child," then Stannis was doing it for the greater good of the world because Melisandre says so. Por qué no los dos? It's quite clear that the fate of the world factored into his thinking during ASOS. It's also quite clear that he isn't a religious fanatic and almost never compromises his own codes for R'hllor (other than the Edric sacrifice, which took almost an entire novel for him to give the 'okay' on). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 *Stannis is crowned King* "My Lord?""Yes, Melisandre?""I think... after carefully checking my fires again, that you're not actually AA. And... I think the fact that I don't eat gave me visions... there is no R'hllor...""Well... don't care". And as Stannis sat on the Iron Throne, many witnesses were later heard saying that was the first time Stannis Baratheon smiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 If we read the last couple of Asha chapters in aDwD I think we can see how Stannis is getting more desperate and is trying to reach out to R'hllor/MelThere's that part with him gazing at the beacon for hours on end, and a more subtle bit when he just fixates on a candle flame as his captains talk around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hand to King Davos Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Yes, he has doubts. It is one of the reasons like Stannis in the books, and don't in the show, is that in the books he has doubts. He isn't convinced of R'hollor, and he is trying with all his might to do the right thing. This is especially true in aSoS. He has doubts, but he is trying to manage and control them. He also only shows them with trusted advisors, like Davos and Mel. Stannis' doubts are one of the biggest reasons I like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwkdude Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 He may not believe that R'hollor is the only true god, but he certainly sees that Melisandre has a power from her beliefs, making it seem much more real than any other god. Of course Stannis somewhat believes in R'Hollor and the mythlore, he's seen things that cant be explained, but he also clearly is focused on the Iron Throne more than being Azor Ahai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwkdude Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Isn't there a distinction between his belief in God(s) and his belief that he is truly powerful/special in some meaningful way based on the claims of someone (Mel) he's seen do some powerful (magical) stuff?That is to say: Even if he doesn't necessarily believe in the specific claimed nature of Rh'llor, the power he's witnessed is real and it's pointing at him. Is that enough to believe it?Is he just putting in the Azor Ahai hat to further his claims to the throne... or might he have bought in?(... which could affect his decision making and self preservation)THIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I thought Mel's thoughts on Stannis being her champion (not R'hllor's) spoke volumes. He may have some token faith in her, but none for R'hllor. And it seems that the further away from her he is, the more he doubts her. I'm just in the middle of a re-read of aDwD right now, so I'll have a better take on his 'doubts' later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petyr's Little Finger Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 I don't think he is a genuine worshipper of R'hllor, he does realise that R'hllor has power, so he keeps faith with Melisandre. If Melisandre can't produce any miracles for Stannis then I think he will abandon Melisandre and the faith of R'hllor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salafi Stannis Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Doubt approached him once... it bent the knee.In all seriousness though, no, he doesn't believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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